JFJ Forums

Jesus is the incarnate of God and I will have eternal life if I believe this.

I may believe because:

1) It was the first belief I was exposed to as a child?
2) What have I got to lose, if I'm wrong what else is there?
3) I am a miserable person in need of a savior?
4) I am predestined to believe, I have no choice?

These are the reasons I find in my heart, what do you think of my faith?

SP: Faith without true humility, repentance, appreciation, and love doesnt sound like a relationship rather than a convenience. Because you have asked, based on this presentation of your faith, I'd say you are on shakey ground. However your honesty is a first step few take.

If I told my wife that these are the reasons I've stayed with her what do you think her responce should be. Are you married to Messiah or not?

SB2:

The only way to have eternal life is if you have been born again of God's Spirit.  There is no other way.  Have you been born again SB2?  If you are not sure, go to our Lord in prayer and ask Him.

For the good news of Jesus Christ is that you have been forgiven of all your past sins SB2 because of our Lord's sacrifice on the Cross, AND that our Lord will give His Spirit to those who ask Him.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. (NIV)

Luke 11:13
13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (NIV)

The Lord bless you!

SB: I apologize if my reply seemed abrupt and unsympathetic. Let me explain.
I can recall like it was yesterday. I had recieved the Lord with great excitement and served Him for 5 years. Things didn't work out as I had hoped. I drifted out of a marraige with my Lord. My eathly marraige feel apart {didnt see the relationship at the time}. I too believed in predestination and was a staunch calvinist {even bordering on fatalism}.
It took ten years of prodical behavior before I would be led back to the Lord {my husband}and find out that I did have to make a choice. Oh I posted similar threads like the one you have here and often recieved the "tilted head" responce with the usual "your in our prayers" until one night "Francis" addressed my post.
I won't go into detail but her tough love approach caused a repentance that night which allowed me back into fellowship as well as a different view in the relationship I was originally called into.
I hope you understand that even in calvins teaching there is a perserverance that must be achieved on our part for us to say we are truley saved. But as I know intimately this lovingly relationship cannot be achieved through effort but only appreciation for His patience.

I recommend a study in the book of Hosea for you to find your bearings now. However I warn you that this is something that has to be experienced. Only an adulterous wife {such as I was - and am} can appreciate the endurance and forebearance of of our Husband Jesus.

So I thankyou for these ending thoughts that I will surely incorparate into a sermon that I am currently working on and I urge you out of your complacency {with tilted head and deepest of prayers} that you find your way home to a loving Savior Who will certainly redeem you from a very cold auction block.
There is no greater relationship to enter into and you do have a choice. You can stay distant or seek His eternal love. I hope you recognize His love for the depth it contains.
Again ......... Thanks for the reminder. We all need it, often.                There are many lost and when you find Him I hope you will be able to convey the depth of His gospel.  
P.S. Fancis turned out to be a grandma. Moms are tough. Thankfully.

My Dear Fellowforumees,

Thank you for your responces,

I am not concerned weather you are abrupt and unsympathetic I am just interested in honest dialog.

"Am I married to Jesus", thats a new guilt trip for me. I looked over Hosea as you suggested, good example it has lead me to a repentive reflection.

I admit that my orginal post was rather negative but are they not valid reasons to believe? Let me add another:
5) Belief in Jesus is the most powerful spiritual force I have seen.

Why do you believe in Messiah?

1) It was the first belief I was exposed to as a child?
2) What have I got to lose, if I'm wrong what else is there?
3) I am a miserable person in need of a savior?
4) I am predestined to believe, I have no choice?

SB: Absolutely! I'm sure our self preservation has a great deal to do with our descision to follow Him. Ultimately when we realize how patient He has been in our hesitations I'm convinced that the only expression will be to find "Him worthy" on that day.  
Certainly there is validity in all of these reasons to come to Messiah. Some are redundant {1+4} in that we have been given advantages in our upbringing for which some will be more responsible than others {no guilt trip intended}.

#1. Jesus said that it would go easier for Sodom than it would for His home town. Hey guilt isn't a bad thing if it brings about the proper result {repentance}. Blessed are the Poor in spirit. Blessed are those who mourn.

#2 is logical but presumptious and I'm afraid many have become cavalier in their intended relationship.
  
#3 No arguement here. Most people cant see how miserable they are so they use bandaid solutions to appease the misery.

#4 Maybe yes, Maybe no. I'm not sure any school of thought has done justice to the mind of God but only actively persuing to lay hold Him can adequately guage where we will stand between the sheep and the goats {Look up the name Demas}. So as Joshua said "chose who you will serve". The topic of predestination hinges on the "foreknowlege" of God. After 30 years of studying the topic I am as ignorant of its application in a fallen world. Does man still have the ability to respond or is salvation completely secured through Gods initiative.
From experience I believe that we must make every effort to work out our salvation in fear and trembling otherwise we fall into the trap that Israel fell {We are children of Abraham}.

#5 The demons believe and tremble but they will never spontaniously love Him. I believe here we are hard on ourselves. We think that because our love is imperfect that it is not genuine. Messiah questioned Peter 3x to reveal this. "Do you love Me Peter". Peter said "You know all things" admitting his frailties.  
Paul says have confidence in your relationship with Him.  Our ability to love Him is not based on who we are, our ability to measure up, or earn God’s favor but is based in a trust on the riches of who God is, the riches of his grace and kindness to us (Eph 1:7, Rom 2:4).                                      
  
Paul goes on to speak of experientially knowing the width, length, height and depth of the inexhaustible love of Christ. Even after getting initially touched by love, Paul prays that we would continue to encounter the infinite ocean of divine affection. It is through the experience of love inexpressible that one enters into a realm called ‘the fullness of God.’
This is the marraige relationship I seek to attain.
His fullness of righteousness, the fullness of wisdom, the fullness of love, the fullness of power.

It is in this inexhaustible searching out of the infinite dimensions of God’s love that our hearts are strengthened, ushered into the fullness of God and established in confidence. For this reason we must cultivate a deliberate pursuit of this realm of truth. We must live our lives with a particular emphasis on understanding the heart of God, of searching the scriptures to discover dimensions of His love that we have not yet know. Often this also requires a commitment of a period of time to “give it a shot” before giving up.
Some people try the intimacy with God through the Word “thing” for a few weeks or months and then give up because they think it doesn’t work. I encourage you, that if in your heart you want to deepen your intimacy with God focus on the heart of God.
If you miss a day or week, don’t quit or hate yourself forever, just press delete on the past and keep going. And if you don’t feel totally transformed, or don’t feel anything at all, don’t give up after one week, one month, whatever—commit to several years in which you will do this and not complain that it’s not working until then. You will spend the next five years of your life doing something anyway. You could spend it watching television and being busy, but you might as well do that which is best for you and those around you by cultivating your intimacy with God. I cannot overemphasize how crucial it is for our lives to have a daily focus on encountering the Tender Father and Passionate Bridegroom in the Scriptures, in prayer, in meditation, in worship, and at all other times. Doing this consistently over time will renew our hearts and minds and destroy all the false conceptions we have of God. This is how our hearts become confident in love. Even though I lost my grip on God, he will not lose his grip on me. Because he has betrothed himself to me forever.                                                                                                        Timothy 2:13: "if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself."
When we experience our failure, when our hearts become broken, or we betray our relationship with God + we fear that our faithlessness has separated us from God's love. However you are called upon to examine yourself to see if tou are in the faith; to make your calling and election sure.

Hope this all congeals. Its kinda noisy over here.
In answer to your question, I would have to say that staying in scripture, fellowship, and service has no substitutons for a rich relationship.

Very interesting verse you have quoted:

Timothy 2:13: "if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

This rings of predestanation to me or maybe absoluteness of God in that God is all things good and terrible.

Nevertheless my mind is filled with God thoughts many of which could be hogwash, (which has taken me much effort and I will not easily give up).

I accept your idea of focus on the "Tender Father and Passionate Bridegroom " and humbly even the whoredom of Gomer. Thanks for the thoughts, I hope for the time to come to pass in my life where :

Hosea 2:23  And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Amen SB. That's the bottom line.

son,please listen to your argument.You ask why do you believe in messiah.not everybody believes in the same messiah as you.Has it ever accurred to you that they believe in a good one and you believe in a bad one.think about it.Your faith is little,and theirs is great.They know truth and you don't.God has his reasons why you don't know your truth,believe me.Believe and be set free.Oh and by the way,if you haven't notice everytime I try to show you truth,I get banned,think about it before I get banned again.

Dear Sir,
I did not know you have been banned, I would be interested in what you have written, no matter how narrow minded it was.

Let me make it clear I did not just fall off the pumpkin wagon or was I born yesterday, I know all the pious talk.

Let me assure you that Jesus is mine, I have been born again, washed in the blood, raised in the spirit. we are free because we are slaves to Christ, there is more faith in honest doubt than all the creeds in christendom.

I just want to know more.