JFJ Forums - Hebrew Catholics

Joshua Wrote:

Thankfully she (Mary)couldnt see how she would be idolized and her very name used as a stumbling stone to the cross.

We recognise Mary was hightly favoured, the LORD was with and she was was blessed among woman" (Luke 1:28)

Mary as the stumbling stone to the Cross is sadly set out in the heresies of the Roman Catholic Chatechism which they place above the Word of God, which falsely claims;

Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation..." (Catchism Pg. 252, #969)
"Being obedient she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." (Catechism  Pg. 125, #494)

This doctrine directly contradict Gods Word which declares;

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Jesus Himself declared that He is the ONLY way to heaven:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved... " John 10:9

Still the Catechism insists:
"She (Mary) is inseparably linked with the saving work of her Son." Pg. 303, #1172

Again in direct contradiction to Gods Word, which declares. even in the Old Testament;

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11
"Yet I am the LORD thy God... there is no saviour beside me." Hosea 13:4
"The God of my rock he is... my saviour..." 2 Samuel 22:3

Certainly, Peter knew that Jesus, not Mary, was the Saviour"... ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" 1 Peter 1:18-19

DavidJ

We might also add, that the origin of Mary worship is not only NOT biblical, it is a carry over from the Roman pagan practices and belief systems of the Temple of "the Magna Mater [the Great Mother] on the Palatine." (Augustus Caesar, Acts of the divine Augustus, 19)

In this work, titled Res Gestae Divi Augusti in the Latin, Augustus precedes this mention with a list of 12 other pagan Temples he credits himself for building or building up.

Christ inspires true humility, as does the gospel. Mary's love for Joseph and Joseph's love for Mary exemplifies the blessing from Y'shua but above all Christ Jesus' love for His church that He purchased with His blood should remain preeminent.

Have we gone so far from faith in Messiah that we no longer see Calvary
or the empty tomb?
Have we become so educated that a simple faith in Christ is seen as, "The poor man's religion?"
Have we become so Holy that we exclude those for whom Christ has died through liturgy, formalities and the doctrines of men?

2 Cor 11:[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The soul of genius is love. W. A. Mozart

prophet Wrote:

Oh wow...David come here...coming mother!!

Jesus was obedient to his mother as a good jewish son was then and is today....they needed more wine...she knew her son could provide and therefore he was obedient to her wishes.

that jesus was a good obedient son is the point knucklehead!

u samsons cant see much better than the judaists when it comes some things. this is a holy family and as such, mary is right smack in the middle of it but u reject her.

prophet Wrote:

That doesn't translate into anything more than a son's obedience before he gave up the ghost on the cross he provided for his mother's welfare as is also Jewish custom for the eldest to do by placing her well being into the hands of John.

yes it does! when u take into consideration that jesus could have appeared to the people driving his candy apple red corvette which he had beamed down from the enterprise, but rather instead chose the holy family, then u realize that there is a purpose why jesus came the way he did.

also, i thought that u samsons insisted that jesus had brothers? where are all the brothers to take care of mary???? why was she living up on the hill with martha and lazurus if she had so many children??

prophet Wrote:

We aren't supposed to pray to the dead , to angels or anyone or anything else but to the living God whose Name is Jesus.

mary is dead now? you mean to tell me that she was not saved and that our god is the god of the dead?

[/quote]

DavidJ Wrote:

Joshua Wrote:

Thankfully she (Mary)couldnt see how she would be idolized and her very name used as a stumbling stone to the cross.

We recognise Mary was hightly favoured, the LORD was with and she was was blessed among woman" (Luke 1:28)

Mary as the stumbling stone to the Cross is sadly set out in the heresies of the Roman Catholic Chatechism which they place above the Word of God, which falsely claims;

Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation..." (Catchism Pg. 252, #969)
"Being obedient she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." (Catechism Pg. 125, #494)

DavidJ

i very much like to see these catichism quotes in an on line catichism with an imprumatir stamp. your references are for the moonwalkers. even if u could walk backwards without being charged with dwi, there will never be a catholoic catechism that tells us to worship mary!!!!

u insult catholic intelligence. if that catechism directs worship to mary, it would destroy the faith. but as john the prophet says, the earth helps the WOMAN and opens up and swallows the water. (dont know what that means do u? u never will i say because i see that u believe that baptisimal water is supplied by the local suburban sanitary commission))

here is a linkto catechism . show me IF YOU CAN where it says in this catechism that doctrine of the church is to worship mary. thanks in advance for the time.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

[/quote]

Brianroy Wrote:

We might also add, that the origin of Mary worship is not only NOT biblical, it is a carry over from the Roman pagan practices and belief systems of the Temple of "the Magna Mater [the Great Mother] on the Palatine." (Augustus Caesar, Acts of the divine Augustus, 19)

In this work, titled Res Gestae Divi Augusti in the Latin, Augustus precedes this mention with a list of 12 other pagan Temples he credits himself for building or building up.

true historical origins???? dont make me laugh!

how about the 12 zillion others that were built before anyone ever heard the name of ceasar?

what if i were to tell you that because so many false pagan religions consisted of the WOMAN as a earthling bride of a deity and producing a son of god ruler, jesus came to us born of the woman in a stable and is gods only son, so he could FISH THEM OUT OF THESE FALSE RELIGIONS???

katolyk Wrote:

[quote=Brianroy]
So the late John Paul, who had his garments labeled "Mary, I'm all yours" and espoused Mariology over Jesus. The late John Paul, whose universalism embraced witch-doctors after they practiced their magics and sulfur smoke for his amusement in Africa, and a host of other sins, this fallible creature was an infallible "successor" to the Apostles?

Brianroy, the late holy father had a great devotion to Our Lady, however he in no way is replacing Jesus with Mary - and I challenge you to show me an instance of him doing so.

As for him embracing African witch-doctors - even if he did this it wouldn't disprove papal infallibility, which is only applicable when the Pope is defining something related to faith or morals. Papal infallibility doesn't mean that the pope is perfect or sinless - indeed I think both the current pope and John Paul the Second went to confession daily. I would, however, like to sin the article that says that he "embraced" african witch-doctors, and watched them "preform magic" though. Please supply a source.

BrianroyWhat kind of Latin phrases are upon the instruments and vestments of the pope, and what do they mean? Try, that he is L-RD G-D on Earth, and the Christ substitute. Check out the Latin. This stuff is common knowledge at the Vatican.[/quote Wrote:

Uhhmm - again a source would be required here, and maybe a picture or two of these supposed vestments. If you can't provide one, then I will dismiss your accusation as an anti-catholic myth - kind of like the "theory" that the papal tiara had the words "Vicarius Filii Dei" on it, which supposedly spell out 666 (click here to see the evidence against this claim).

Or that John Paul II's "name in latin" "Joannes Paulus Secundo" stands for 666 (claim).

Fortunately the second is even easier to dismiss since their translation of John Paul the Seconds name into Latin is wrong. "Joannes Paulus" being in the nominative case (i.e. the subject) while "Secundo" is either the dative (i.e. the case for to) or ablative (i.e. the case for from). You can check for yourself at Whitaker's Words.

Katolyk

p.s. the above post was directed at you.

KATOLYK

DID U KNOW THAT THE WOMAN WHO COOKED UP THAT FILII DEI STUFF WAS THE FOUNDER OF SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS??? LOL! THE FUN THING WAS THAT WHEN THEY WERE EXPOSE HER, THE FOUND OUT THAT HER NAME ADDED TO 666 IN HEBREW AND LATIN. LOL!

ellen gould white i think her name was. the inscription on the staff of the pope says 'vicar of christ' and she stretched to 'vicar of son of god' to get the letters she needed to get the numbers. anyway 666 is not a person, it a great city or beast that anti is ruling over. www, is 666 and could be the beast, cyberspace. also we have two "gates of hell". robert gates and bill gates. one rules cyberspace and the other the department of defense. lol!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei

Quote:

Posted by david - Today 07:59 PM
i very much like to see these catichism quotes in an on line catichism with an imprumatir stamp. your references are for the moonwalkers. even if u could walk backwards without being charged with dwi, there will never be a catholoic catechism that tells us to worship mary!!!!

u insult catholic intelligence. if that catechism directs worship to mary, it would destroy the faith. but as john the prophet says, the earth helps the WOMAN and opens up and swallows the water. (dont know what that means do u? u never will i say because i see that u believe that baptisimal water is supplied by the local suburban sanitary commission))

here is a linkto catechism . show me IF YOU CAN where it says in this catechism that doctrine of the church is to worship mary. thanks in advance for the time.

You are plain wrong, David. Contrary to your assersions, I have never insulted or even commented on 'catholic intelligence'. I have discussed Roman Catholic papist doctrine with the Holy Bible as the solid rock of my discussion and belief. You are also plain wrong in suggesting that I referred to 'Mary worship' in the cateschism. I invite you to read again what I posted and you will, hopefully, plainly see I never once mentioned 'Mary Worship'. Instead, you will see I was plainly and specifically refering to the papist heresies of Mary's role in salvation and intercession, and the papist heresy of placing the catechism above and/or equal to Gods Word. Read again what I said, this time with "caltholic intelligence' please.....

Quote:

DavidJ Wrote:
Mary as the stumbling stone to the Cross is sadly set out in the heresies of the Roman Catholic Chatechism which they place above the Word of God, which falsely claims;

Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation..." (Catchism Pg. 252, #969)
"Being obedient she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." (Catechism Pg. 125, #494

Now, having read it again, hopefully you will realise how hopelessly mistakeyou are; nowhere did I state "Worshiping Mary" was part of the catechism.. What I clearly referred to was the papist heresies that Mary has a divine role in salvation and interssion and placing the papist chateshism above the Word of God. So what say you now David?

DavidJ

david Wrote:

i very much like to see these catichism quotes in an on line catichism with an imprumatir stamp. your references are for the moonwalkers. even if u could walk backwards without being charged with dwi, there will never be a catholoic catechism that tells us to worship mary!!!!

The Bible is clear; their is only ONE Divine Soveriegn Lord. There is ONE Divine Judge over all. Yet the heresy of Father John A. Hardon, S.J. Founder of the Marian Catechist Apostolate, adds another Divine Soveriegn and another devine Juge, in the form of 'Lady' when, in 2003 he proclamed this heresy.....

"The title “Mary” was Mary’s before she was so addressed by the angel. It means, among other things, “Lady,” corresponding to our English word, “Lord.” “Lord” for Christ; “Lady” for Mary. She is then the “Domina” even as He is the “Dominus.” It is, in fact, the revealed basis for Mary’s Queenship. She was to be the Mother of the Lord of the Universe and therefore the Queen of mankind. One of the most popular devotions in France, I am told for some time now is devotion to Mary, Queen of the Universe. Makes sense, if her Son is Lord of the Universe. That is what the title “Mary” means." ...... "That is what we are praying for and confidently hope for because we are asking the Mother of the God who will judge us the moment we die."

I look to some of our Jewish friend here who can hopefully enlighten us on the truth of the meaning of the name Mary. I personally can find no evidence to support the above papist heresy. My understanding is Mary is Mariam or Maryam - an old Hebrew name, still used in some countries; in English-speaking countries, the slightly later (but still ancient) Old Testament name Miriam is more popular. In origin, Maryam and Miriam have the same meaning as the very popular Christian girl's name Mary (Maria or Marie). It is believed that the name comes from "drop of the sea" or possibly "star of the sea." However, the name Maryam/ Mariam is so old that there will always be some uncertainty about it.

DavidJ

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_p.../index.htm

John Paul II's "apostolic" proclamations say...what?