10-16-2007, 06:26 AM
Is it to evangelize or give and use the Gospel to encourage and help the believer first? I thought that it was first for the Jew/believer, then the Greek/world. (Matthew 10, Romans 1-3, 9-12).
10-16-2007, 06:26 AM
10-16-2007, 07:12 AM
Goy,
In scripture, people are generally categorized into two main groups: Jews and Gentiles. The most simple definition for Jews is that Jews are those people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and received the covenant given at Mt. Sinai.
Gentiles are people who are not Jewish. In other words, Gentiles make up everyone who was not descended from Jacob.
When scriptures speaks of the Jewish people, it includes some Jewish people who recognized Jesus to be the Messiah prophesied in scripture and many Jewish people who didn't recognize who Jesus is. So, the Jewish people, like the Gentile people who have not accepted Jesus as their Messiah, Lord and Savior, need to hear the gospel of salvation so they might have a choice of accepting who Jesus is, or rejecting who Jesus is.
Jews for Jesus is a missionary organization. A missionary is a person who is 'sent out' to evangelize or speak forth the gospel of salvation. The missionaries are either Jewish, or married to someone Jewish who is also a missionary. As Jewish believers in Jesus, Jews for Jesus primary purpose is to share the gospel of salvation with their own people, the Jewish people, who need to hear the good news.
To the Jew first and also to the Greek, is a statement that the gospel of salvation is to be preached/shared with the Jewish people and also the Gentiles who do not yet know Jesus.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In scripture, people are generally categorized into two main groups: Jews and Gentiles. The most simple definition for Jews is that Jews are those people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and received the covenant given at Mt. Sinai.
Gentiles are people who are not Jewish. In other words, Gentiles make up everyone who was not descended from Jacob.
When scriptures speaks of the Jewish people, it includes some Jewish people who recognized Jesus to be the Messiah prophesied in scripture and many Jewish people who didn't recognize who Jesus is. So, the Jewish people, like the Gentile people who have not accepted Jesus as their Messiah, Lord and Savior, need to hear the gospel of salvation so they might have a choice of accepting who Jesus is, or rejecting who Jesus is.
Jews for Jesus is a missionary organization. A missionary is a person who is 'sent out' to evangelize or speak forth the gospel of salvation. The missionaries are either Jewish, or married to someone Jewish who is also a missionary. As Jewish believers in Jesus, Jews for Jesus primary purpose is to share the gospel of salvation with their own people, the Jewish people, who need to hear the good news.
To the Jew first and also to the Greek, is a statement that the gospel of salvation is to be preached/shared with the Jewish people and also the Gentiles who do not yet know Jesus.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
10-16-2007, 09:29 AM
M'am,
With all due respect, I was drawing a parallel between Israel and the unevangelized goyim; and believers and the world. Also, if missionaries are sent out unequipped and without fellowship, how can they preach?
Goy,
In scripture, people are generally categorized into two main groups: Jews and Gentiles. The most simple definition for Jews is that Jews are those people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and received the covenant given at Mt. Sinai.
Gentiles are people who are not Jewish. In other words, Gentiles make up everyone who was not descended from Jacob.
When scriptures speaks of the Jewish people, it includes some Jewish people who recognized Jesus to be the Messiah prophesied in scripture and many Jewish people who didn't recognize who Jesus is. So, the Jewish people, like the Gentile people who have not accepted Jesus as their Messiah, Lord and Savior, need to hear the gospel of salvation so they might have a choice of accepting who Jesus is, or rejecting who Jesus is.
Jews for Jesus is a missionary organization. A missionary is a person who is 'sent out' to evangelize or speak forth the gospel of salvation. The missionaries are either Jewish, or married to someone Jewish who is also a missionary. As Jewish believers in Jesus, Jews for Jesus primary purpose is to share the gospel of salvation with their own people, the Jewish people, who need to hear the good news.
To the Jew first and also to the Greek, is a statement that the gospel of salvation is to be preached/shared with the Jewish people and also the Gentiles who do not yet know Jesus.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
With all due respect, I was drawing a parallel between Israel and the unevangelized goyim; and believers and the world. Also, if missionaries are sent out unequipped and without fellowship, how can they preach?
Jans Wrote:
Goy,
In scripture, people are generally categorized into two main groups: Jews and Gentiles. The most simple definition for Jews is that Jews are those people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and received the covenant given at Mt. Sinai.
Gentiles are people who are not Jewish. In other words, Gentiles make up everyone who was not descended from Jacob.
When scriptures speaks of the Jewish people, it includes some Jewish people who recognized Jesus to be the Messiah prophesied in scripture and many Jewish people who didn't recognize who Jesus is. So, the Jewish people, like the Gentile people who have not accepted Jesus as their Messiah, Lord and Savior, need to hear the gospel of salvation so they might have a choice of accepting who Jesus is, or rejecting who Jesus is.
Jews for Jesus is a missionary organization. A missionary is a person who is 'sent out' to evangelize or speak forth the gospel of salvation. The missionaries are either Jewish, or married to someone Jewish who is also a missionary. As Jewish believers in Jesus, Jews for Jesus primary purpose is to share the gospel of salvation with their own people, the Jewish people, who need to hear the good news.
To the Jew first and also to the Greek, is a statement that the gospel of salvation is to be preached/shared with the Jewish people and also the Gentiles who do not yet know Jesus.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
10-16-2007, 09:51 AM
Goy,
I'm not sure about your 'parallel'. It doesn't match the meaning of the verse.
No missionary board should send out untrained missionaries. Missionary boards in general do have intensive training. As far as fellowship, when a missionary is sent out, especially if they are sent to remote places where there is no congregation, they usually go in pairs, with their families and maybe other missionaries. Plus they communicate with the agency which sent them out and often have a 'superior' or mentor who cares for their spiritual well being and advise them on effectively sharing the good news of salvation. In scripture, the disciples were sent out two by two.
There are many good books on missions. I'm sure several people on this board could recommend some books if you are interested.
I'm not sure about your 'parallel'. It doesn't match the meaning of the verse.
No missionary board should send out untrained missionaries. Missionary boards in general do have intensive training. As far as fellowship, when a missionary is sent out, especially if they are sent to remote places where there is no congregation, they usually go in pairs, with their families and maybe other missionaries. Plus they communicate with the agency which sent them out and often have a 'superior' or mentor who cares for their spiritual well being and advise them on effectively sharing the good news of salvation. In scripture, the disciples were sent out two by two.
There are many good books on missions. I'm sure several people on this board could recommend some books if you are interested.
10-16-2007, 10:20 AM
M'am,
I also used Matthew 10 to support my parallel. Also, when the Gentiles shared in the spiritual blessings, to whom did they send back material blessings? Also, I'm not here to start another argument.
Goy,
I'm not sure about your 'parallel'. It doesn't match the meaning of the verse.
No missionary board should send out untrained missionaries. Missionary boards in general do have intensive training. As far as fellowship, when a missionary is sent out, especially if they are sent to remote places where there is no congregation, they usually go in pairs, with their families and maybe other missionaries. Plus they communicate with the agency which sent them out and often have a 'superior' or mentor who cares for their spiritual well being and advise them on effectively sharing the good news of salvation. In scripture, the disciples were sent out two by two.
There are many good books on missions. I'm sure several people on this board could recommend some books if you are interested.
I also used Matthew 10 to support my parallel. Also, when the Gentiles shared in the spiritual blessings, to whom did they send back material blessings? Also, I'm not here to start another argument.
Jans Wrote:
Goy,
I'm not sure about your 'parallel'. It doesn't match the meaning of the verse.
No missionary board should send out untrained missionaries. Missionary boards in general do have intensive training. As far as fellowship, when a missionary is sent out, especially if they are sent to remote places where there is no congregation, they usually go in pairs, with their families and maybe other missionaries. Plus they communicate with the agency which sent them out and often have a 'superior' or mentor who cares for their spiritual well being and advise them on effectively sharing the good news of salvation. In scripture, the disciples were sent out two by two.
There are many good books on missions. I'm sure several people on this board could recommend some books if you are interested.
10-16-2007, 11:21 AM
Goy,
I never took your questions as arguing. I wanted to try to answer your questions.
As far as Matthew 10, I enjoy those verses because they contain the advice/teaching of Jesus as He sent His disciples to evangelize on what was essentially the first missions trip. I'm not sure how you are referencing Matthew 10.
Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 6:7 And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
I never took your questions as arguing. I wanted to try to answer your questions.
As far as Matthew 10, I enjoy those verses because they contain the advice/teaching of Jesus as He sent His disciples to evangelize on what was essentially the first missions trip. I'm not sure how you are referencing Matthew 10.
Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 6:7 And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
10-16-2007, 12:27 PM
To whom did they preach first? Jews (believers in God) or Gentiles (pagan nations)? (See Matthew 10). Also, we had an offline argument about JFJ and evangelism, the argument started by a discussion about reputation ratings.
I don't hold grudges, but I hold things in my heart.
Goy,
I never took your questions as arguing. I wanted to try to answer your questions.
As far as Matthew 10, I enjoy those verses because they contain the advice/teaching of Jesus as He sent His disciples to evangelize on what was essentially the first missions trip. I'm not sure how you are referencing Matthew 10.
Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 6:7 And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
I don't hold grudges, but I hold things in my heart.
Jans Wrote:
Goy,
I never took your questions as arguing. I wanted to try to answer your questions.
As far as Matthew 10, I enjoy those verses because they contain the advice/teaching of Jesus as He sent His disciples to evangelize on what was essentially the first missions trip. I'm not sure how you are referencing Matthew 10.
Mark 3:14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach,
Mark 6:7 And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits;
Luke 9:2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
10-16-2007, 10:01 PM
Goy,
I am very sorry you felt hurt by our discussion. I wasn't really arguing with you. I was trying to explain the way the board works.
Back to the topic. In the Old Testament, God made many promises to the Jewish people. Among those promises was that God would provide a Messiah, born a Jew. That Messiah would bring a New Covenant.
At the time of Jesus, some Jewish people believed there is a God, and that God gave them covenant at Mt. Sinai. Some Jewish people did not believe in God. Thru the history of the Jewish people, even when the Jewish people were disobedient, set up idols and worshipped them, God was always faithful to His promises to the Jewish people. What I am trying to say is that 'to the Jew first', had nothing to do with their belief or lack of belief but more to do with God who is faithful to keep His promises.
Jesus came to offer a New Covenant as prophesied. Evangelism is telling people about the Messiah and the New Covenant so that they might accept the Messiah. The Jewish people were to be offered the New Covenant first. Still today, it is to the Jew first, and also the Gentile. Scripture prophesies that the Gentiles would come to the Messiah to make the Jewish people jealous. The Jewish people still need to be told about the Messiah and the New Covenant. When the Jewish people accept the New Covenant, then it will be fully in place.
I am very sorry you felt hurt by our discussion. I wasn't really arguing with you. I was trying to explain the way the board works.
Back to the topic. In the Old Testament, God made many promises to the Jewish people. Among those promises was that God would provide a Messiah, born a Jew. That Messiah would bring a New Covenant.
At the time of Jesus, some Jewish people believed there is a God, and that God gave them covenant at Mt. Sinai. Some Jewish people did not believe in God. Thru the history of the Jewish people, even when the Jewish people were disobedient, set up idols and worshipped them, God was always faithful to His promises to the Jewish people. What I am trying to say is that 'to the Jew first', had nothing to do with their belief or lack of belief but more to do with God who is faithful to keep His promises.
Jesus came to offer a New Covenant as prophesied. Evangelism is telling people about the Messiah and the New Covenant so that they might accept the Messiah. The Jewish people were to be offered the New Covenant first. Still today, it is to the Jew first, and also the Gentile. Scripture prophesies that the Gentiles would come to the Messiah to make the Jewish people jealous. The Jewish people still need to be told about the Messiah and the New Covenant. When the Jewish people accept the New Covenant, then it will be fully in place.
10-17-2007, 05:51 AM
M'am,
I am not discounting the literal meaning of the verse and Bible. What I'm doing is saying that the Gospel is to the Jew/Church first, the Gentile/pagans.
Goy,
I am very sorry you felt hurt by our discussion. I wasn't really arguing with you. I was trying to explain the way the board works.
Back to the topic. In the Old Testament, God made many promises to the Jewish people. Among those promises was that God would provide a Messiah, born a Jew. That Messiah would bring a New Covenant.
At the time of Jesus, some Jewish people believed there is a God, and that God gave them covenant at Mt. Sinai. Some Jewish people did not believe in God. Thru the history of the Jewish people, even when the Jewish people were disobedient, set up idols and worshipped them, God was always faithful to His promises to the Jewish people. What I am trying to say is that 'to the Jew first', had nothing to do with their belief or lack of belief but more to do with God who is faithful to keep His promises.
Jesus came to offer a New Covenant as prophesied. Evangelism is telling people about the Messiah and the New Covenant so that they might accept the Messiah. The Jewish people were to be offered the New Covenant first. Still today, it is to the Jew first, and also the Gentile. Scripture prophesies that the Gentiles would come to the Messiah to make the Jewish people jealous. The Jewish people still need to be told about the Messiah and the New Covenant. When the Jewish people accept the New Covenant, then it will be fully in place.
I am not discounting the literal meaning of the verse and Bible. What I'm doing is saying that the Gospel is to the Jew/Church first, the Gentile/pagans.
Jans Wrote:
Goy,
I am very sorry you felt hurt by our discussion. I wasn't really arguing with you. I was trying to explain the way the board works.
Back to the topic. In the Old Testament, God made many promises to the Jewish people. Among those promises was that God would provide a Messiah, born a Jew. That Messiah would bring a New Covenant.
At the time of Jesus, some Jewish people believed there is a God, and that God gave them covenant at Mt. Sinai. Some Jewish people did not believe in God. Thru the history of the Jewish people, even when the Jewish people were disobedient, set up idols and worshipped them, God was always faithful to His promises to the Jewish people. What I am trying to say is that 'to the Jew first', had nothing to do with their belief or lack of belief but more to do with God who is faithful to keep His promises.
Jesus came to offer a New Covenant as prophesied. Evangelism is telling people about the Messiah and the New Covenant so that they might accept the Messiah. The Jewish people were to be offered the New Covenant first. Still today, it is to the Jew first, and also the Gentile. Scripture prophesies that the Gentiles would come to the Messiah to make the Jewish people jealous. The Jewish people still need to be told about the Messiah and the New Covenant. When the Jewish people accept the New Covenant, then it will be fully in place.
10-17-2007, 11:47 AM
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1.
When we read to the Jew first, it does not mean that they are to be witnessed before a Gentile. It means that they were the first to receive the gospel . The Jews stand on the same ground as everyone else and they are not special cases.
helidoni.
When we read to the Jew first, it does not mean that they are to be witnessed before a Gentile. It means that they were the first to receive the gospel . The Jews stand on the same ground as everyone else and they are not special cases.
helidoni.
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