Just thinking about individual Jews getting born again is something from the past. What is needed is a vision for how all Israel will be saved (Rom 11:26). All over 140 times this phrase (kol yisrael) appears in the Hebrew Bible it means national Israel. This is what a missiologists call a people movement. Not that every single Jew will be evagangelical, but that most will be.
So, this is my experience with Jews for Jesus. David Brickner's article on Christian Zionism misses this point. It is true that Christian Zionism is not dead on target yet. But in the future when the barier wall of partition is totally down (Isaiah 60:5 kjv, Eph. 2:15) it is going to have to be millions of Gentiles with a Jewish loyalty to make a nation that goes from the Nile to the Euphrates. I saw the interview by Bill Moyers and they were not in my opinion "standing hand in hand denounceing Christian Zionism". In fact, they seemed to be nervous that it had something to it. The Baptist professor noted most people believe Revelation (59 %) but not the Bible (36%). This rings true from my evangelism encounters. People's ears perk up when you say "the book of Revelation says". People have a sense of unfulfilled justice that is grafified when the read Revelatation. Especially Jewish people. The days of saying you can have any end time view you want are soon comeing to an end in my opinion as God crystalizes what is happening the closer and we get. Most people already admit that saying this world as we know it has no end is wrong scientificly, theologically and emotionally. As I have already said, most people have a sense of unfulfilled justice that is itching to be gratified.
G-d is the one who will drop the scales from their eyes-not man, in his timing. So many Christians think by helping the Jews, then they are hurrying up the end-time prophecies. Many times, G-d does things that the mainstream religeous people miss. They missed John the Baptist for example. Everyone wants things to happen in their lifetime, but this doesn't mean that's the way it will happen. And it does not have to be a wall of Gentiles for things to happen for the Jewish people--- This presumes that G-d has no other possible options. I personally believe that it will happen through Jewish people (mainly).
You're hitting right on the JFJ Mission in Israel.
G-d is the one who will drop the scales from their eyes-not man, in his timing. So many Christians think by helping the Jews, then they are hurrying up the end-time prophecies. Many times, G-d does things that the mainstream religeous people miss. They missed John the Baptist for example. Everyone wants things to happen in their lifetime, but this doesn't mean that's the way it will happen. And it does not have to be a wall of Gentiles for things to happen for the Jewish people--- This presumes that G-d has no other possible options. I personally believe that it will happen through Jewish people (mainly).
But Israel is saved by the Lord with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity. Isaiah 45:17
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Phil 4:6
God's people are saved by him forever throughout eternity. No shame for us
no confusion ever again.
Don't worry, go to your maker in prayer, thankful He will answer the matters He has put on your heart.
First I want to say condolences to those who have lost so much in California withthe wild fires. I hope any arsenists will be brought to justice. Things like this can bring people to serious questions about God and it isn't even one one millionth of what God's final judgement will be like. We can be like Jesus and pray for mercy when we grasp the final totality of God's wrath when it is finally poured out at the end of forebearance. Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not us (Romans 12:19ff, Hebrews 10:26ff, Deuteronomy 32:35ff).
You guys are right. JFJ mission in Israel is about all Israel being saved" like it says in Romans, isn't it. Leaders who can paint the best picture of what that will look like will be most effective. It is the vision casting issue, and in this case, not just human imagination but something prophetic. But it is still a matter of leadership.
But as with many other things, God does it but we are supposed to see where He is working and join in. We can do our theology with Calvin, but we need to do our evangelism with Wesley. It is like two different perspectives. When your car is broken on the highway you need joes garage, not a tyrade damning detroit. But some times some people in some places do need to study factories and stuff. So, we do some practical theology from earth looking to heaven. Other theology we do from heaven looking to earth.
My experience with Jews for Jesus is good. I have never been to Israel or California.
This is an anwser to the blessed are you who have never seen yet believe. I think of the church age as mid summer day harvesters who don't see alot of miracles and stuff. BUt at the end of the day the miracles increase and the Jews as a nation join in. Then that parable applies that though they jumped in on it late they are still part of the same reward. This is a difficult thing for the gentiles, that we were believeing without much to go on and were heat of the day laborers.
Signs or no signs God wants a good believeing obedient heart. So, not being open to signs and miracles could be a problem to cause it is all about the heart attitude.
In context, How is a person blessed to not see California or Israel?
Are the people who don't see and yet believe more blessed than those who do see and believe? Who sees and believes? Or are they more blessed than those who don't believe seeing or not? So then isn't everyone who believes blessed the same and the contrast is with those who simply don't believe? How could I be more blessed than Thomas? I think the comparison is to unbelievers.
Jesus said, those who would believe in Him, through our words and did not see the scars* (I'm Thinking too), [don't want to give my testimony away right] yet, are blessed if they believe into Y'shua. (Jesus)
Chad it will help you if you read this really fast. Almost in the time it took me to type it. Don't be ashamed of the fact Jesus left, He gave us the Holy Spirit to help friends in need.
Thanks for your concern-cor517
*Chad that might be like a believing soldier that loses his eyesight in Iraq, gets his disability check, and then his wife decides to leave him after she finds out. He can believe into Jesus with his scars in tact.
OK, you are right. It is a word orientation thing. That is very Hebrew. God in the begining spoke it.
But on a diffenent thread,
Evidentialism. Apologetics in terms of history and science
Thedalism. Feeling it is true
Presupositionalism. like the philisophically oriented quadrangle of Thomas Aquinas.
In a Josh Mcdowel book or maybe the Bible answer man I heard these three ways of believeing. I think we need all three.
Pain is materiel for spiritual growth. RIchard Enright says that in his book on forgiveness. What do you think 517?