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All of the early Christians and Church Fathers believed that the Eucharist is the Flesh and Blood of Jesus. Infact it was universally believed by all Christians right up to the 1500s.

"But what consistency is there in those who hold that the bread over which thanks have been given is the Body of their Lord, and the cup His Blood, if they do not acknowledge that He is the Son of the Creator of the world..." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18, 2 (c. A.D. 200).

"For the blood of the grape--that is, the Word--desired to be mixed with water, as His blood is mingled with salvation. And the blood of the Lord is twofold. For there is the blood of His flesh, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and the spiritual, that by which we are anointed. And to drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord's immortality; the Spirit being the energetic principle of the Word, as blood is of flesh. Accordingly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. And the one, the mixture of wine and water, nourishes to faith; while the other, the Spirit, conducts to immortality. And the mixture of both--of the water and of the Word--is called Eucharist, renowned and glorious grace; and they who by faith partake of it are sanctified both in body and soul." Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, 2 (ante A.D. 202).

>"Greetings, Yes you have, just as Marina appeared to be running out of steam. As a matter of interest, are you in any way connected with Marina, Greco or Katolyc?"

Nope. I have no idea who these good people are. I was surfing through Google Blogsearch and found a post that led me here to the forums. I have my own apologetics blog. My post above is largely a repost of an earlier blog post of mine from April.

http://christian-apologetics-society.blo...arist.html

>" I also understand the papist interpretation of it and reject it on the basis of Scripture alone."

Its rather ambiguous as to what "it" specifically you are rejecting. If by "it" you are rejecting that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, that's your personal decision based on your personal interpretation of scripture. You're your own pope. You're infallible.

However, truth is not relative, but absolute. Your rejecting truth doesn't negate truth one iota. Catholics have the truth about the Eucharist backed with proof from scripture, church history, and science. Reject and argue away.  Better minds have attacked the Eucharist and been found wanting. The doctrine has stood the test of 2,000 years time. You offer nothing new or novel.

The lack of any refutation concerning Isaiah 55:11 and the Eucharist seems to be consent by silence. Are you consenting or do you hold that the Last Supper is the one exception to Isaiah 55:11, that the word of God went forth and nothing happened. Oh, yeah. Forgot. The word of God went forth and turned bread into a symbol. That's impressive enough to cause gentiles to convert and martyrs like Justin to die for their faith.

Unlike certain presidents, Catholics understand the meaning of "is" and it does not mean "means" or "symbolizes". The verb "to be" in Greek, Latin, or English scripture means "is".

Zech. 9:15-16 - this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church, and those who drink Jesus Blood in the Eucharist.

Catholics drink Jesus' Blood, it is like wine, though in substance it is Christ Blood.

Do you not read also this?


And in 12:23, "But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat."

Yes, this phophesy in Zech 9: 15 was not meant for the Jews, it was meant for the Christians, because the Jews never drank blood.

"He who eats my flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day"

Jesus is the Way, The Truth and The LIFE.

When Jesus taught that we must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood to have everlasting life.

The people that left Him left saying " How can this man give us his flesh to eat ", they refused to believe.

"Do you take offense at this?" It was a teaching so hard that their human logic could not believe it, they didn't have the supernatural faith to believe.

"But there are some of you that do not believe. For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him."

" Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him "

Judas did not believe Jesus words " Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you "

Judas went on to betray Jesus at the establishment of the Eucharist, when Jesus said " Take and eat this is My Body " and " Take and drink, this is the cup of My Blood ".

" You search the Scriptures thinking that in them you will find life, but Scripture bears witness to Me, yet you refuse to come to Me that you may live "

You are blessed that I'm not reporting you for goyisch-centric attitude. You, Mariner, are an anti-Semite.

Thats a foul insult, since I have Jewish heritage, and have always been proud of it.

You should be reported for this insult alone, its a rule of the forum, and you just broke it.

You are not worth communicating with, if you are going to cast insults.

To be very honest, I am amazed. The way you have been defending and attempting to whitewash over the Romans Catholic Churchs active and tacit cooperation with the Nazi's persecution of the Jews, no one would have ever guessed.

I am not being sarcastic here - to me you have come over as an ardent supporter of papists who have persecuted the Jews both in Holocaust and the Inquisitions.

You can't blame Goy for believing you to be anti-semitic; you left me little alternative but to draw the same conclusion.

DavidJ

Mariner Wrote:

Yes, this phophesy in Zech 9: 15 was not meant for the Jews, it was meant for the Christians, because the Jews never drank blood.

You are blessed that I'm not reporting you for goyisch-centric attitude. You, Mariner, are an anti-Semite.

Quote:

Thats a foul insult, since I have Jewish heritage, and have always been proud of it.

You should be reported for this insult alone, its a rule of the forum, and you just broke it.

You are not worth communicating with, if you are going to cast insults.

You're a self-hating Jewish person, then. Go tell George Soros and Alan Colmes, "Hi" for me.

Well it just shows how judgemental you have been.

You have been so prejudiced against the Catholic Church, that the Catholic Church equals evil in your head. And this is the basis from which you judge everything.

It says more about you then it does about me.