JFJ Forums

I further trust they may realise I have hopefully never attempted to use my own logiic or the logic of men, but the Holy Spirit who guides sanctiifies and teaches to support my testimony that I am saved by Grace. Jesus Himself revealed who He was to me personally; like he did with all bible believing born of the Spirit The Christians; He alone freely guides and sanctifies us. He alone writes His Law on our hearts; He alone creates within us a clean heart. He alone will raise us on that last day, without spot or blemish - washed in His Blood - to The Father according to HIS WORD. Jesus has never used any papist - high or low - to bring me to a sure and certain salvaion in Him.  

The Biblie believing born again Christian such as myself, has no use for the religiousity of Popes, Roman Catholicism or Chaticisms because for us there is  now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 1:1)

DavidJ

This papist teaching is a manipulation essential justify papist heretical authority over the Kingdom of Heaven.

The truth scriptural truth is different. The teaching of Isaiah 22  is based on references in the Old Testament to gatekeepers of the City and Temple, and on references to the “key of David” and the “keys to the kingdom” in the New Testament; Jesus explains this to us, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out." (John 10:1-6) We are being taught here that the shepherd brings the sheep and then he comes to the sheep fold. Here we have what is called a gatekeeper or porter. There is a gate there. Interestingly enough it says, the gatekeeper will open the gate for the shepherdm because, ".... he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out." (John 10:2-3)

We see here Jesus as the Shepherd, and the Kingdom of God as the Sheepfold, (Luke 13:24-30/Revelation 22:14) and the Holy Spirit NOT THE POPE) as the Porter/Gatekeeper who holds the key as one who allows entry. This is confirmed by Jesus Himself, for no man comes to the Father by Jesus Christ unless he is drawn there by God the Holy Spirit and no man enters into eternal life unless admitted by the power and agency of the Holy Spirit.  (1 Corinthians 12:3 and Titus 3:5-6) The Holy Spirit, not a pope,  is the only one who knows men’s hearts and knows whether a person should be admitted into the kingdom of God.   Holy Spirit revelation as to who Jesus is to men and women individuall;, exactly what happened to Peter,  is the rock upon which Jesus is building His Church. The Holy Spirit holds the Key of David and for any pope to claim he holds what the Holy Spirit alone holds (Revelation 3:7) is risking blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; the unforgivable sin!

DavidJ

I wasn't off topic. I was merely going for your answer. I know how the Roman Catholic "saint" criteria works:

1. You have to have a sign such as the stigmata, a visit from an angel, Church "father", previous "saint", or Mary.
   
2. You have to have done some good work or miracle, even martyring.
   
3. You have to be Roman Catholic and almost, if not completely, anti-Protestant.
   

By the way, I don't recognize Mormonism, Unitarianism, or Jehovah's Witnessim as Christianity.

Does what I said seem off topic, or did I clarify well enough?

Nope. You mixed your metaphors. The metaphors of the key in Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:18-19, and Rev 3:7 all belong together because they are the same metaphor (quote) from Isaiah 22:22.

You have taken a passage mentioning gates, gatekeeper, porters, and doors and somehow added a key that isn't in any of the passages, except the three previously discussed. You also seem to have changed scripture saying Jesus (2nd person of the Trinity) holds the key to the Holy Spirit (3rd person of the Trinity) holds the key. Does not scripture have a prohibition against adding to it or changing it? (Revelation 22:18-19)

[BTW, I lived several years in that region of the world and shepherds don't generally use keys to secure sheep. The sheep are herded into caves and a gate fashioned from interwoven sticks and limbs is used as a gate. Sheep herding hasn't changed much in 1,900 years.]

I noted that you did not refute that Rev 3:7, while written about 90 A.D., does not describe events of 90 A.D.. That seems to leave the keys of Matthew 16:18-19 firmly in the grasp of Peter and his successors, which today would be Benedict, Bishop of Rome.

Also, after ten pages, my questions, as to why Simon alone of the Twelve Apostles is the only one renamed ("stone") by God and what his renaming signifies, still remain unanswered.

God bless...

You, bighodag, also missed verses 29:13-14 in Isaiah; that, in context, aptly apply to you and Mariner.

Herein may lie your problem. In an earlier post you invited us to look at this 'logically' but Jesus invites us to understand it spiritually, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says..." (Rev 3:6). Your ''logic' has just informed the shepards must have a literal mechanical key; which of course the gatekeepers did have in the Old Testament. However, the 'Key' we are discussing is a 'spiritual key'. Even your logic should tell you this  because Isaiah 22:22 says the Key of David shall be placed on his shoulder. Did you see anyone during your time in that region carrying a key on their shoulder? No, of course not; you clearly do not have an ear for spiritual metaphors. Sad! The Bible is a spiritual book - understood by born of the spirit bible believers and clearly not by papist dogmatists.

The Key of David is a spiritual key. David being a forshadow (or type) of Jesus - the King and Ruler of Gods People - The Holy Spirit the spiritual keyholder to the Gates of Kingdom of Jesus - the spiritual key being the 'opening of the way through from the natural to the spiritual'; "...He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves" (Colossians 1:14) That is why Jesus "warned his disciples, and that included Peter,  not to tell anyone that he was the Christ..." (John 16:20) Because it is not for a man like the pope to attempt to use a spiritual key that he does  posseses to open the spiritual gate for men and women to pass from the natural to the spiritual - from spiritual darkeness into spiritual light - that is the spiritual keyholders function - The Holy Spirit.

We only have to look at the massive history of the debaucheries, wealth, heresies, violence, warfare, inquistions, crusades and holocaust collaboration of the popes to realise they themselves  are in total  spiritual darkness and blindness - "'Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will not they both fall into a pit?" (Luke 6:39).


I certtainly have responded - I am not searching back to find it again - John 1:3542 refers. That is where Peter was re-named when he fist met Jesus not when The Holy Spirit revealed to him that Jesus was the Son of God - the revelation which is the Rock upon which Jesus builds His Church.

It's is so sad to see Christians fighting over denominations. It distracts people from seeking after God, from loving Him and our neighbours and our enemies. So even if the Pope and the RC church could be counted as enemies, we are commanded to love them.

The RC church is Trinitarian - they believe in the same Godhead and creeds as Protestant Christians. There may be mistakes (as in all denominations), but they are still our brothers and sisters. There should be no in-fighting in God's family. We all need to get closer to God and let Him deal with our sins and preferences, I think it is a real shame that this forum is spoiled by this kind of thread.

No one has labelled the Roman Catholic Church 'a demonination'. You may cause as much offence to the papists by calling them a denomination as I do calling the papal system the anti-Christ. Pope Benedict XVI himself has re-asserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches. (Source:  LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy July 10, 2007)


We should be seeking The Truth - Roman Catholicism and Bible Believing Christianity cannot both be the Truth. We are commanded to love our enemies - not to try and justify their wrong doings and anti Christ dogma !!!!!


Which the Bible Believing Christian does. We love them so much we want them saved from Hell.


You are misguided; Bible believing Christians believe the Bible Only as the Word of God - we have no place for creeds, traditions, popery, other saviours or catechismsThere may be mistakes (as in all denominations), but they are still our brothers and sisters.


The papist system is not part of Gods Family. For you to suggest it is distract others who are seeking the truth of God from finding it. There is no salvation to be found in the papal dogmas.


Agreed. The closer anyone gets to papism and Roman paganism the further away from God you are enticing them.


I don't think the Christians who own this Forum would agree with you.

DavidJ

"You believe that there is one God. That's fine! The demons also believe that, and they tremble with fear." (James 2:19)