DavidJ – you are simply wrong and your post shows that your animosity towards the Catholic Church is far greater than any thought or reason you put into your posts.
u are right about this man. his anti-catholic spirit is driving him. and i see his spirit coached what to say.
Do you see the importance of the timing of all of this? Scripture records what was already in practice!!! The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tm 3:15). The Holy Spirit worked through the Church by inspiring her members to record the eyewitness accounts of the Apostles and the experiences of the early Church.
You claim that the office of the Bishop of Rome was invented by the RCC based on an erroneous interpretation of Mathew 16. Jesus handed the keys to Peter well before Mt. 16 was written. The notion of an earthly leader of the Kingdom Jesus established was accepted by the Apostles, and THEN recorded in scripture. You can even see this in the writings of the early church.
we been round anbd round with this and sait all the same end. when jesus gave those keys to peter he told peter that he would be with him even to the CONSUMATION OF THE WORLD. tell me what wthat means.
how can this me anything but the catholic church since we all know that peter is killed. peter is not around till the consumation but his church is!!!!
THIS BE ENUF TO REFUTE ANYTHING THAT DAVIDJ HAS TO SAY AGAINST IT.
remember, jesus asked peter to FEED his lambs and his sheeps.
the church has no mission to bash or judge as far as i can see.
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take a tour thru these pages below and see a different catholic chuch much unlike the one thid davidj guy is showing u.
..... Scripture records what was already in practice!!! The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tm 3:15).
1 Timothy 3:15 makes
no mention of the
Roman Church -
you are adding to scripture David !
You claim that the office of the Bishop of Rome was invented by the RCC based on an erroneous interpretation of Mathew 16.
No, not a wrong 'interpretation' but a correct assertion that Matthew 16 makes
no mention of the Roman Church or a Roman Bishop; it is not my wrong interpretation; again
you are adding to Scripture!
David
J
DavidJ –
Your analysis completely ignores the Jewish roots of our faith. Where in scripture do you see any of the Apostles asking “Ok Lord, but what are the keys of Heaven?” (And you have the audacity to accuse Catholics of adding man made tradition to scripture!) You obviously do not understand what the keys represent but the apostles and the early church most certainly did. The Apostles, being Jewish and knowing the scriptures, knew EXACTLY what Jesus was talking about when Jesus handed Peter the keys. They knew all about the Davidic Kingdom and the office of the Master of the Palace. They knew Jesus was quoting from Is 22:22 and that is why you see no such question being asked in scripture.
Likewise, Jesus did not “congratulate” Peter. He acknowledged that the revelation to Simon bar Jona that Christ is the Messiah, the son of the living God, was from our Father in Heaven. This revelation, ordained by God, draws Simon to a new calling which Jesus bestows upon him. Here is where the name change comes in and the reference to Is 22:22. It could not be more clear from scripture. (In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was right then and there that Jesus “semicha’d” Simon, laying his hands upon Simon (rather than literally handing him keys) and changing his name to Cepha)
Peter doesn’t figure anything out, it is revelation by the grace of God. Is this not the same with us today? We don’t “figure God out” and then get congratulated. God reveals himself to us. So then you go on to say: “Until Peter turned the keys, or IMPARTED the faith, …”. Neither Peter, nor any of the Apostles, nor any human agency imparts faith. Faith is a gift from God, granted and nurtured through the power of the Holy Spirit. Your assertion that the keys are “faith keys”, and that Peter was given the power to “impart” faith, simply doesn’t hold up to the entirety of scripture. Remember, as you have said before, scripture interprets scripture – all I see from your post is you adding to scripture this crazy notion of “faith keys”.
So the “maze of error” here is your lack of understanding of the Jewish roots of our faith and your forcing Protestant man-made tradition into scripture.
well said. listen up forum this is truth.
Do you see the importance of the timing of all of this? Scripture records what was already in practice!!! The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tm 3:15).
That passage does not refer to only those in communion with the Roman See or the Bishop of Rome. In 1 Tim 3:15 the Church of God refers to that visible body of professed believers, called collectively " the church , " though it exist under various names and denominations and divided with one another. The true church is found from amoung these denominations. These are the believing remnant from within the professing church. What is rejected is the claim that the Bishop of Rome is the sola vicar of Christ on the earth and that he is above in authority over all elders/ bishops in the church on the earth. And a rejection of the concept that the Bishop of Rome is the visible head of the Church on the earth.
You claim that the office of the Bishop of Rome was invented by the RCC based on an erroneous interpretation of Mathew 16. Jesus handed the keys to Peter well before Mt. 16 was written.
I personally hold that Matt 16:16 the " Rock " refers to the person of Peter's confession of faith in Jesus Christ and that the church is built based on the confession of faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God. And Peter and the other Apostles were given the keys right in Matthew 18:18. All the Apostles were given this authority at the same time and together. All the Apostles had equal authority.
The notion of an earthly leader of the Kingdom Jesus established was accepted by the Apostles, and THEN recorded in scripture. You can even see this in the writings of the early church.
The Kingdom of the Messiah will start at Jesus second coming to the earth. That is when His reign as King starts along with His kingdom on the earth. That is found right in Matt. 25:31-34 and was held by a majority of the early church fathers prior to 300ad. The early church fathers prior to the 300 ad did not teach anything with regard to the Bishop of Rome being the universal head of the visible church on the earth. They held that all the Apostles had the same authority.
Hello.
Peter designates himself simply as an apostle and/or servant of Christ. Strangely, he neglected to mention that he is the “human foundation.”
Hello.
Peter designates himself simply as an apostle and/or servant of Christ. Strangely, he neglected to mention that he is the “human foundation.”
Peter also writes:
"To the elders among you, I appeal as
a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed..." (1 Peter 5:1 NIV)
David