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How you speak! You worship someone other than who you think you know; we who are Christians worship God and know that Peter was not the Rock.

So why did Jesus rename Simon " Rock " Kepha", I know that Peter is the "Rock", because Jesus renames him " Kepha " Rock.

If I denied that Peter was the "Kepha" Rock, I would also be denying the Scripture, and the direct words of Jesus. Not a good place to be.

Yet another thread devolves, this one into pointless etymologies. DavidJ seems to have some sort of axe to grind in regards the Catholic Church. This whole thread is yet another re-hash of an old, trite arguement against the papacy. Yawn.

Not that anyone really cares, but the office of bishop (episkopos) is mentioned in the Bible. Bishops are mentioned in Acts 1:20, 20:28; Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:1-2; Titus 1:7; and 1 Peter 2:25. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome. Very Biblical. Also, Ephesians 4:11 does mention the pope. That would be the phrase "pastor and teacher".  As does 1 Corinthians 12:28 in the words "third teachers". The Pope is foremost a teacher. He is also the pastor of a local church in Rome. Very Biblical. If you have a problem with the word "Pope", take it up with the Coptic Church as they originated the term and still use it today to describe the Coptic Bishop.

Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. History verifies that. It doesn't matter one iota whether that fact is recorded in the Bible or not. The Bible also does not record the first Bishop of Byzantium nor the first Bishop of Damascus. So what? We know who they were through historical sources. Paul is not the gold standard.

The Bible also does not fail to mention the office held by the Pope. As pointed out, Matthew 16:17-19 clearly shows that Christ reinstated the ancient Davidic office of chamberlain. While arguing about rocks, petras, and kephas, Christ's citation of Isaiah 22:22 has been completely ignored as has Simon's name having been changed to Peter by God in the person of Christ. Why does God change Simon's name to Peter and what does it signify? Why only Simon among the 12 Apostles? Why does Jesus quote Isaiah 22:22 in regards to Peter and the Church?

Regarding Matthew 16:17-19, its not just Catholics that acknowledge Christ establishing His Church with Peter as its head, but also many well-known and respected Protestant Bible scholars acknowledge this fact as well. You might read this paper which quotes a number of these scholars:

http://www.catholic-pages.com/pope/hahn.asp

Catholics fully agree with all the scriptures cited. Jesus has all authority over heaven and earth; however, Peter and his successors have the authority Jesus delegated to Peter via the keys, and, as the key holder, may, in fact, issue religious "laws". Isaiah 22 and Matthew 16 say so. None of that dimishes our Lord's authority one iota. Get over it.

Regarding "papal infallible hypocracy", one might learn what the doctrine of infallibility is before one tries to argue against it. You made a great arguement against impeccability, but not infallibility. Catholics agree with you, the Pope is not impeccable. Common ground at last.

God bless...

With an unhelpful attidute like that I will not from hereon dignify your posts with any responses.

DavidJ

Another of your red-herrings. Look again please at what I said.....

DavidJ

Exactly. You have just made Mariner's point. Thank you.

Jesus spoke Aramaic and the Gospel writers wrote in Greek. The Gospel writers were bound by rules of Greek syntax and grammar that don't occur in Aramaic and thus the petra/petros conflict was born. When one references a Bible written in Aramaic, one finds kepha/kepha, which are more than likely the exact words uttered by Jesus, our Lord.

Again, arguing over which langauge and which word means what is a distraction from the facts that in Matthew 16:17-19 God has renamed Simon to Peter and Jesus quoted Isaiah 22:22. Why?

Why did God rename Peter? What does renaming by God signify? Who else in scripture was renamed and why? Why only Peter and none of the other Apostles?

Why did Jesus quote Isaiah 22:22? What does the ancient office held by Eliakim have to do with Peter?

God bless...

With an unhelpful attitude like that I will not from hereon dignify your posts with any responses.
DavidJ

So at least be consistant. Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou art the Pope". Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou art infallible on matters of faith and doctrine" Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou shalt have thy chair in Rome" Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou shalt dress up in glorious and expensive robes"

Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou shalt not get married and have children." Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Thou art Almighty God on Earth" Neither did Jesus say to Peter, "Wear a papal ring that people can kiss it."

And I am only touching the tip of the iceburg!

DavidJ

>"With an unhelpful attidute like that I will not from hereon dignify your posts with any responses."

Understand. Consent by silence.

You can't answer the tough questions regarding Isaiah 22:22 and Peter being renamed by God, so the tactic now is to feign offense.

God bless...

With an unhelpful attidute like that I will not from hereon dignify your posts with any responses.

DavidJ