12-04-2007, 03:28 AM
03-27-2008, 08:23 AM
Sorry, but that is an oxymoron.
There is NO "old testament".
There is a Hebrew Bible. It may have been written long ago, but it is still very current.
The new one is more of a "testimony" than a testament (which is a legal document).
There is NO "old testament".
There is a Hebrew Bible. It may have been written long ago, but it is still very current.
The new one is more of a "testimony" than a testament (which is a legal document).
03-27-2008, 12:20 PM
searchinmyroots Wrote:
Sorry, but that is an oxymoron.
There is NO "old testament".
There is a Hebrew Bible. It may have been written long ago, but it is still very current.
The new one is more of a "testimony" than a testament (which is a legal document).
Jer 23:29 “Isn’t my word like fire, ”asks ADONAI, “like a hammer shattering rocks?
Lets read the Tanakh searchinmyroots:
Jer 31:31 “Here, the days are coming, ”says ADONAI, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Isra’el and with the house of Y’hudah.
The above verse promised Israel a new covenant thousands of years ago and since there is a promise of a new there must be a reference to the old.
Jer 31:32-34 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers on the day I took them by their hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt; because they, for their part, violated my covenant, even though I, for my part, was a husband to them, ”says ADONAI. (33) “For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Isra’el after those days, ”says ADONAI: “I will put my Torah within them and write it on their hearts; I will be their God, and they will be my people. (34) No longer will any of them teach his fellow community member or his brother, ‘Know ADONAI‘; for all will know me, from the least of them to the greatest; because I will forgive their wickednesses and remember their sins no more.”
Both are G-ds law written in history but when the end of the age came the new law became authoritative!
If Y'shua is the Jewish Messiah who gave the people of Judah the new Law promised in Jeremiah 31:31 then it is the Jews obligation to read the new law and choose and think for themselves!
If Jesus is our Mashiach then G-d is able to speak to each individual Jew without the need for rabbis but one must individually look upon the life of Y'shua (New Testament) in the same way as our fathers looked upon the bronze serpent and were healed.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Lets learn from all but think for ourselves!
This is our obligation as Jews.
✡ I encourage every Jew to read the New Covenant for yourself and see if G-d Himself confirms the message of a Savior who has came and visited his people as predicted by the Prophets and the whole Tanakh.
03-28-2008, 11:41 AM
Prowler Wrote:
[snip]
You didn't read the verse: I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will any of them teach his fellow or his brother,
Question? Has this happened yet? Are the pagans on Easter Island all going: "Oh My I know Hashem"? or do the Pagans on Easter Island know nothing....
This is my litmus test on what has happened: Do The Pagans on Easter Island know about it, or not.
It is clear that it has not happened yet, therefore Jeremiah Ch. 31 has not happened yet. As far as you're concerned, you're misreading verses to support your position
Danny.
03-29-2008, 06:08 AM
Prowler,
Once again, man cannot change the word of G-d.
You said;
"Both are G-ds law written in history but when the end of the age came the new law became authoritative!"
SMR:
Please show me where it says "new law" as you say.
Once again, G-d disagrees with you, and you know I always listen to G-d.
Deuteronomy 4:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of HaShem your G-d which I command you.
You misquote Jeremiah 31.
Another question. G-d made many covenants with the Jewish people. Show me one where G-d says the old one is obsolete.
Furthermore, what you fail to realize is that G-d is saying He will put His Torah in our hearts. What is Torah? It is not a "new set of laws". It is Torah.
So yes, I agree, I encourage every Jew and xtian to read Jeremiah 31 and to understand what it really says. Nothing about a messiah, no blood for sin.
Once again, man cannot change the word of G-d.
You said;
"Both are G-ds law written in history but when the end of the age came the new law became authoritative!"
SMR:
Please show me where it says "new law" as you say.
Once again, G-d disagrees with you, and you know I always listen to G-d.
Deuteronomy 4:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of HaShem your G-d which I command you.
You misquote Jeremiah 31.
Another question. G-d made many covenants with the Jewish people. Show me one where G-d says the old one is obsolete.
Furthermore, what you fail to realize is that G-d is saying He will put His Torah in our hearts. What is Torah? It is not a "new set of laws". It is Torah.
So yes, I agree, I encourage every Jew and xtian to read Jeremiah 31 and to understand what it really says. Nothing about a messiah, no blood for sin.
03-29-2008, 07:46 PM
Dannyil Wrote:
You didn't read the verse: I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will any of them teach his fellow or his brother,
Question? Has this happened yet?
It is clear that it has not happened yet, therefore Jeremiah Ch. 31 has not happened yet. As far as you're concerned, you're misreading verses to support your position
Yes it has... shema... you see the Messiahs identity can not be learned by showing two hundred Messianic verses. No teacher can teach you who He really is in black and white. The Word of G-d is the seed that we sow but the Spirit of G-d must reveal it to you. This has happened to me and I thank G-d that people like you (anti missionary) didn't get to me before my experience with the L-rd! Now its too late for you guys because He visited me.
The Jews were not up on the mountain with Moses which is why their faith was weak but I have had my personal encounter with the L-rd! Praise G-d for His great love.
The New Covenant speaks of a personal burning bush experience for every Jew and every man while still here on earth. This is the reason we should humbly read the New Testament and wait to see what the L-rd says. If Y'shua is Meashiach G-d will confirm it if you shema. One does not have to be a king, a Levite priest or a Jewish prophet anymore we all shall be a nation of priests. That Jeremiah prophecy speaks about G-d revealing Himself personally and this happens when we sincerely seek G-d in the Torah or directly look upon the life of Y'shua in the New Testament that has been foretold by all G-ds writings but again the L-rd judges the seed sown and the ground it falls on... so be aware that ultimately G-d alone teaches and reveals Messiah and the New Covenant!
The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah promises a personal confirmation from the G-d of Israel to you!
The challenge is... lets read this New Testament for ourselves... come and see if its true.
Complete Jewish Bible Wrote:
Jer 31:31-34 “Here, the days are coming, ”says ADONAI, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Isra’el and with the house of Y’hudah. (32) It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers on the day I took them by their hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt; because they, for their part, violated my covenant, even though I, for my part, was a husband to them, ”says ADONAI. (33) “For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Isra’el after those days, ”says ADONAI: “I will put my Torah within them and write it on their hearts; I will be their God, and they will be my people. (34) No longer will any of them teach his fellow community member or his brother, ‘Know ADONAI‘; for all will know me, from the least of them to the greatest; because I will forgive their wickednesses and remember their sins no more.”
03-29-2008, 08:48 PM
searchinmyroots Wrote:
G-d made many covenants with the Jewish people. Show me one where G-d says the old one is obsolete.
Some of those additional Jewish Covenants were covenants of promise; some were conditional and some were unconditional but they touched and fulfilled the conditional aspects of the Mosaic Law as well the promises made before the Law. They were not rules of life as outlined in the Mosaic Covenant... this is why we wait Baruch haba... the introduction of the New Covenant is the fulfillment of Mosaic law but brought with it some New Laws of the Spirit to which the Mosaic Law was pointing... also it should be noted that the Kingdom shall be fully manifested at the next age upon His return.
The Law of Moses as a form for worship is authoritative until Immanu El comes. If Y'shua is the Mashiach then we have the real Torah in Him. The Law of Moses was and continues to be our tutor but it was a shadow of Messiah and not the promise Himself! Law of Moses is good but Messiah is so much better! Followers of the New Covenant fulfill the guts of the Mosaic Law but don't argue over a light switch on the Sabbath as everyone keeps their personal conscience clean before G-d!
Jer 31:31 “Here, the days are coming, ”says ADONAI, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Isra’el and with the house of Y’hudah.
H2319
çãùÑ
châdâsh
khaw-dawsh'
From H2318; new: - fresh, new thing.
The above verse promised Israel a new covenant thousands of years ago and since there is a promise of a new there must be a reference to the old.
The word 'old' should communicate something here and maybe answer your question "Show me one where G-d says the old one is obsolete". A dictionary may help also.
If you understand this then the Kingdom of G-d is at hand.
Isa 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
03-29-2008, 09:26 PM
searchinmyroots Wrote:
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of HaShem your G-d which I command you.
✡ If you ignore the new Law giver of Deuteronomy 18:15 you have disobeyed Deut 4:2 that you yourself have quoted above. This wasn't just written to scribes you know... they were commands!
Deu 18:15 “ADONAI will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. You are to pay attention to him,
✡ Now who keeps the Law or an even better question would be "Who is Y'shua?"
John 8:24 This is why I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not trust that I AM (who I say I am), you will die in your sins.
✡ Are the posts of your heart covered with the blood of the only brought-forth Lamb of G-d?
Jas 4:14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
Blessed be the Name of Y'shua HaMashiach the King of Isra'el
04-12-2008, 10:49 AM
Dannyil Wrote:
Prowler Wrote:
[snip]
You didn't read the verse: I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will any of them teach his fellow or his brother,
....................................
Danny.
The text means that as 'the Moshiach' said a comforter is with you who knows the will of Ha Shem so that his covenant and law is truly written in you and bound upon your arm.
THE ARM OF THE L-RD
In chapter three of tractate Hagiga. Chapter two describes forbidden teachings: 'WHAT IS ABOVE, WHAT IS BENEATH, what was before and what will be. Whoever takes no thought for the honor of this maker it would be better for him not to be born'. In chapter three we are told that Menahem 'went forth'.
11 Ask for thee a sign from Jehovah thy God, Make deep the request, or make it high upwards.'
12 And Ahaz saith..
13 And he saith, 'Hear, I pray you,...
14 Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign,..
Yeshayahu - Chapter 66
6 A voice of noise is from the city, a voice from the temple, The voice of Jehovah, giving recompence to His enemies.
A midwives tale
Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm ... ... Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
<< Genesis 38:28 >>
and it cometh to pass in her bearing, that one giveth out a hand, and the midwife taketh and bindeth on his hand a scarlet thread, saying, 'This hath come out first.' [a little hand' the promised Messianic forbearer the rising of the sun secured by ha Shem personally through tamar who was more righteous than Yehuda{not Difficult}]
7 Before she is pained she hath brought forth, Before a pang cometh to her, She hath delivered a male.[the arm of the L-rd]
Isaiah 7:11 & 14
11 Ask for thee a sign from Jehovah thy God, Make deep the request, or make it high upwards.'............ 14 Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign[Yeshayahu 66:9], Lo, the Virgin is conceiving, And is bringing forth a son, And hath called his name Immanuel,
Yeshayahu 66:9
8 Who hath heard anything like this? Who hath seen anything like these? Is earth caused to bring forth in one day? Born is a nation at once? For she hath been pained, Zion also hath borne her sons.
9 SHALL [color=red]I BRING TO THE BIRTH AND CAUSE TO BRING FORTH SAITH THE L-RD SHALL I CAUSE TO BRING FORTH AND SHUT SAITH YOUR G-D [ELOHIM][/color]
04-12-2008, 10:58 AM
searchinmyroots Wrote:
....
Another question. G-d made many covenants with the Jewish people. Show me one where G-d says the old one is obsolete..
i can
9. And I said, "I will not tend you. That which dies-let it die; and that which is cut off-let it be cut off. And the survivors shall eat, each one her neighbor's flesh. [All describeing the seige of Yerusalem]
10. And I took My [first] staff, [called] Pleasantness [YESHUA] and I cut it off to nullify My convenant [DE 29:10] that I [had] formed with all the peoples. [Eloi Eloi...]
11. And it was nullified on that day. And the poor of the flock that kept My word knew this, that it was the word of the Lord. [the christian Martyrs][that is the simple]{not the arrogant proud and complicated}
12. And I said to them: "If it pleases you, give [Me] My hire, and if not, forbear." And they weighed out My hire: thirty pieces of silver.
13. And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the keeper of the treasury, to the stronghold of glory-of which I stripped them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast it into the house of the Lord, to the keeper of the treasury.
14. And I cut off my second staff [Herod], the Destroyers, to nullify the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. [the End of the 'jew' dinasty babe]
15. And the Lord said to me; Take for yourself still another thing, the instrument of a foolish shepherd. [Jonathon ben Zakkai]
16. For, behold! I am setting up a shepherd in the land. Those that are cut off he shall not remember; the foolish ones he shall not seek. The lame he shall not heal; the one that can stand he shall not bear. And the flesh of the fat one he shall eat, and their hoofs he shall break.
17. Ho, worthless shepherd,[Rabban Yochanan Ben Zakkai] who abandons the flock! A sword is on his arm and his right eye; his arm shall wither, and his right eye shall dim.
Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai,At the end of his life, the Babylonian Talmud tells us, was crying and weeping. And his disciples, Talmidim, they came to him and said "Oh, mighty hammer", (they called him Patisha Gadol), "Oh mighty hammer, great hammer, why are you weeping?" "Why are you crying, why is your soul in distress, oh mighty hammer, Ben Zakkai?"And Rabbi Ben Zakkai said " I'm about to meet Ha Shem, G-d , Blessed be his name, and before me there are two roads, one leading to Paradise and one leading to Gehenna; one leading to Heaven and one leading to Hell, and I do not know to what road Ha Shem will sentence me". The founder of Rabbinic Yehudaism, admitted he had absolutely no assurance of salvation. He said what he did, he didn't know if G-d was goingto send him to hell for doing it. He was terrified to die at the end of his life. That was Rabbi Johanan b.Zakkai.
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