JFJ Forums

I am a Jewish believer in Yeshua the Messiah. I am so thankful for Jews for Jesus. Over the course of many years, I have been continually encouraged in my walk with Yeshua by JFJ. Thank you so much for being there for me, and for so many others like me!

After many years as an evangelical Protestant/Messianic Jew, I am entering the Roman Catholic Church. This is something of a surprise to me! (An astonishment really!) Oddly enough, this trajectory has nothing to do with the usual Protestant vs. Catholic rhetoric, but came about quite by accident. I went to Princeton Univ. as an undergrad (EE & CS) and later to Princeton Theological Seminary. I read the Scriptures in Hebrew and Greek. I have spent the last several years studying the Cantillation of the Tanakh in Hebrew, the Dead Sea Scrolls in Hebrew, the Septuagint in Greek, the Deuterocanonicals, the Talmud and Midrashim and the Pseudepigrapha and the NT in Greek. Much to my amazement, through the study of these purely Jewish sources, I have been driven to the position that the Roman Catholic Church is correct on various doctrines that distinguish Protestants from Catholics. I have come to believe that the RCC is the true descendent of the 1st C Jewish thought that believed that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

I would be interested in having an intelligent discussion with a moderator about this, off-line, since it is probably too technical for most readers.

Would one of the moderators be able to respond to this post? Perhaps we could hold an email discussion. (hpj0828@yahoo.com)

Again, thank you for all the help of JFJ through the years!

Shalom!
H.

It is this kind of remark that should alert the Christian, in this instance our Moderators, to seek discernment between spirits.

It smacks of "secret knowledge" which is the means by which papism manipulated the masses for centuries - the bible in a language (latin) which was only understood by those privileged with authority over them - thus the spiritual manipulation by the power of 'secret knowledge'.

This is the same spirit as the 'spirit of cult leaders' - who claim to have special knowlege (disguised in this case to read "too technical") which enables them to spiritually manipulate others by first gathering a small inner circle to disseminate their 'secret knowledge' and gain spiritual control and ultimate spiritual mind-washing.

DavidJ

Clearly fulfilling prophecy.....

"He shall honour the god of forces: a god whom his fathers knew not"... he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws....a god his fathers did not know he shall honour with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts...." (Daniel 7:25 and 11:38)

DavidJ

Dear David,
Did you know that in your posts you come across as a very venomous, offensive and hateful person? What do you think you will accomplish by this approach? Has someone hurt you in the past that you react in this way?

Certainly, a new person like myself does not feel welcome here from your response. I am quite surprised that the Moderators of this forum allow such hatred to go without comment. BTW: You consistently misrepresent RC positions. You do not appear to have the intelligence to grasp any form of theological subtlety in dialogue.

My "secret" knowledge is nothing more than a strong Protestant Seminary education supplemented by Rabbinic studies. Much of what I would have to say assumes a knowledge of the Scriptures in the original Hebrew and Greek. Do you know Hebrew and Greek? Or do you merely rely upon a Protestant translation of the Bible into English for Protestants which contains theological bias? If you don't know the original languages, I don't see how you could participate in a discussion about the text.

From your responses, I see no reason to dialogue further with you.

Regards,
H.

If you had first read all of my posts then you would know the reason without me having to repeat it all again.


A newcomer? Not feeling welcome? Or a bit of emotional manipulation to silence anyone exposing papism for what it really is - the seat of satan!  



  I am not here to represent the papist position; hopefully even you can understand that!


Firstly, I am no a protestant, secondly, my Pastor, Teacher and close friend over many years is a Lecturer at the International Bible Training Institute in West Sussex, England where he lectures in Biblical Archaeology and Hebraic Studies. He also sits on the Board of Association of the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem and is the UK Director for that organisation. He is fluent in Hebrew and holds both a Diploma and a Degree in Theology.


If you run to the same form as your papist predecessors here you will not be able to resist the temptation.

DavidJ

Only today it has been announced that Tony Blair has just entered the Roman Catholic Church.  In England this is causing great concern about the integrety of the Papal system as a whole.

Blair is a man, who whilst British Prime Minister, voted 14 times in favour of abortion. Supported 'homosexual marriage'. Supported Bush that he was doing the will of God in the war against Iraq. Support homosexual couples adopting children (English Roman Catholic Adoption Agencies closed as a result of this).

Blair has not recanted his views and now is the 'Middle East Peace Envoy'  (More that ever before we really do need to pray fervently for the Nation of Isreal). And what does the Vatican say about all this? "Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said the path Blair has been on "was not improvised, has lasted a long time and has been deep and serious." Lombardi added that the Catholic community was "happy to welcome such a prominent person ... at the end of a deeply spiritual personal path."

I have already spoken to three Roman Catholic friends about this and they are frankly shocked at such hypocracy. Blair has recanted nothing of his beliefs in abortion, gay marriage, gay adoption, Gods Will for the Iraqi war.

So, H, if I was in your shoes I would not be too confident in 'Catholic Conversions' if this is an example.

DavidJ

Hi DavidJ
IM an Englishman in the UK and tony has been "attending" the catholic church here for the best part of his dictatorship "PMship"
The Roman Catholic Adoption Agencies made the right call "they chose to "shut-up-shop" rather than have him Dictate policy on their moral guidelines " well done to the Agencies" it was about time someone stood against him

crikey that were quick

I supported the Roman Catholc Adoption Agencies in standing against Blair - I still do.

The point I am making is the Roman Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil. Roman Catholic writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae ("The Gospel of Life") have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder. But now welcomes a man who voted 14 times in favour of abortion as a matter of individual concience on free votes. He has not recanted and yet is welcomed into Roman Catholic Communion up to Vatican level!

The catechism of the Roman Catholic Church on Homosexuality states ".... Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which present homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity [Gen. 19:1-29, Rom. 1:24-27, 1 Cor. 6:10, 1Tim. 1:10], tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered [Persona Humana]. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. " and yet the Vatican has welcomed into communion a man who voted in favour of legalisation of homosexual acts and vigorously supported legalisation of 'homosexual marraige'. Blair has not recanted of this but is now a Roman Catholic supported by the Vatican.

Cardinal Pio Laghi the Vatican envoy who met with President Bush in 2003  "clearly and forcefully" conveyed a message from Pope John Paul II that a war against Iraq would be a "disaster." Yet Blair proclaimed that God will judge whether he was right to send British troops to Iraq, echoing statements from his ally George Bush. Blair the now Roman Cathalic has not recanted of this and is approved at Vatican level.

DavidJ

No, I don't. God speaks to me by his spirit through His inspired Word in English - the language HE KNOW I UNDERSTAND. Nowhere does scripture teach that the Christian must learn Hebrew or Greek (or Latin for that matter) before they can receive The Truth of Gods Word. That is your own manipulative 'secret knowledge'.


 I have no prejudice or bias which version I read; I rely on the perfect interpretor - The Holy Spiirt.


I do not believe there is even a Roman Cathalic edict to support a requirement to learn Hebrew and Greek before we can properly understand Scripture; in fact there is evidence that the RCC prefers the 'unintelligent' not to even read scripture and in any event the language is Latin. Therefore, we are back to your 'secret knowledge'. By entering the Roman Catholic Church by means of having aquired all this knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, rather than the RC Latin and RC Versions of the Bible, are we to assume this is your unique 'ticket to heaven'?  What about those, who like me, and even your own Roman Catholic members, you have laballed as unintelligent? Are we all dammed without a 'ticket to heaven' because we can't read Hebrew and Greek like you can?

You must be very thankful to  God that you are not like us other men and woman who are not intelligent like  you are - having aquired a ticket to heaven via Rome by your special knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. Even the the RC Church only accessed heaven via Latin!

"The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men...." (Luke 18:11 Douay-Rheims Bible Catholic Bible)
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At a guess (and perhaps you should ask them) I would say they are intelligent people (otherwise why would you wish only to speak only to them?) who realise I have no personal hatred for anyone. They probably know that my love for you is a Christlike love that will do anything to save you and others you are leading astray, especially our Jewish friends- Gods chosen people,  from a lost eternity via Roman papism.

DavidJ