JFJ Forums - Tradition

May I please correct an aweful typo in my post #10 - highlighted in red below. Please delete FUus and insert find us

Quote:

menorot Wrote:

......I feel especially for Roman Catholics (no, I'm not one) who suffer a lot of abuse on this website.....

The only person that has been banned for abusing others whilst I have been here is in fact a Roman Catholic. If you can FUus where a Roman Catholic has been abused then you should be specific and not make these kind unsubstantiated offensive false accusations and then walk away with "I have said everything I wanted to say in this thread now." However, nothing you have said so far has been backed up with Scripture and requests for you to do so have been totally ignored. If your not going to discuss why come onto a discussion forum in the first place unless you have some alternative agenda that you have not dislosed?

Sincere apologies
DavidJ

menorot Wrote:

There are a couple of websites I can refer folks to:

http://daily.commonworship.com/daily.cgi?today_ep=1 is a daily web site for evening prayer, which uses modern liturgy. I use this site quite a lot.

http://www.stpixels.com is a nice peaceful online church with helpers who are friendly and helpful. There is no trolling or offensive stuff there. There is an active church worship session every night at 2100 GMT.

All very interesting stuff; I have nothing against any of it per se. However, I cannot help but notice one has to really search to find the name of Jesus mentioned and even when His name is found there is no apparant mention of how to find salvation in Him, i.e. “Salvation is found in no other name but the name of Jesus” (Acts 16:31).

I could not help but notice one subscriber blogging she was looking for 'something' other than candles and tradition but had not found it. Sadly she will not find it on your websites. I hope I am wrong here, but you and your websites seem to put so much emphasis on tradition and litergy that it seems they can walk a religious walk of 'feel good factor' nominal Christianity and never ever be saved from an eternity in hell.

DavidJ

Hi Menorot
i was raised in an Anglican Church with the common prayer book ( traditional prayers recited word for word week in week out, but it never drew me close to God ( i found it tedious and boring
also when Jesus gave us The Lords Prayer, He said after this manner pray He was giving us a guide for prayer

Though i still enjoy more traditional styles of Worship
i enjoy the Freedom to worship i have know without the time constraints

menorot Wrote:

......I feel especially for Roman Catholics (no, I'm not one) who suffer a lot of abuse on this website.....

That reminds me of Richard Dawkins and some in my family:

richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religions-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins Wrote:

I am sure her experience is far from unique. And what if we assume a less altruistic child, worried about her own eternity rather than a friend's? Odious as the physical abuse of children by priests undoubtedly is, I suspect that it may do them less lasting damage than the mental abuse of bringing them up Catholic in the first place.

Happily I was spared the misfortune of a Roman Catholic upbringing (Anglicanism is a significantly less noxious strain of the virus). Being fondled by the Latin master in the Squash Court was a disagreeable sensation for a nine-year-old, a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion, but it was certainly not in the same league as being led to believe that I, or someone I knew, might go to everlasting fire. As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile. I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power. Given the Latin Master's eventual suicide, maybe the damage was all on his side.

Why Rob Novak is Roman Catholic, I'm trying to figure out.

menorot Wrote:

..... Is is true that God hates tradition? I can't be sure what the writer meant, but I cannot wholly agree, I can only say that I believe God probably hates empty, meaningless or hypocritical tradition....."

What I think the writer meant was that God, through Jesus, came to seek and save that which was lost i.e., salvation. Anything, including man inspired tradition that deflects in the slightest from Gods plan and purpose of personal salvation is sin and God hates sin.

It is the Scriptures - NOT TRADITION - that are the instrument of the Holy Spirit and His means for conquering Satan and changing lives - read Hebrews 4:12 and Ephesians 6:17.

Scripture, not tradion, are the means of Salvation in Christ Jesus ....
"And that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:15-17). "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).

According to 2 Timothy 3:15-17, it is Scripture that is able to give one knowledge of salvation, it is God-breathed, and it is what we need to be thoroughly equipped for every good work. To be “thoroughly” equipped, means that it has all that we need. Scripture contains the information from God that is all we need for salvation and to live a life of good works. According to Isaiah 8:20, it is the “law and testimony” (terms used to refer to Scripture, see Psalm 119), that is the standard by which to measure truth - not traditions.

DavidJ

My dear brothers in Christ, Agent-of-Grace and David J,

I want to say how sorry I am that my posts in the forum have given such offence. I promise you it was unintentional. I did not realise that there were people in this forum who felt so strongly against the Roman Catholic Church and against tradition. I can see I stepped into a minefield unaware.

I became a Christian over 40 years ago, and because I had to travel frequently for my work I worshipped in many different churches and denominations from RC to Charismatic, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, Methodist, West Indian, Asian, and many many others. I always adapted to whatever forms the worship took, and found many genuine God-loving Christians in every church.

I prefer the Church of England now that I am retired and settled in one place. I love the Lord very much, and He speaks to me most clearly through the Book of Common Prayer and through the services in my local parish church and cathedral, and I love to worship with liturgy. I know the peace of God which passes all understanding when I am in this environment. I still go to other peoples' churches when we have combined services, and that's lovely, refreshing, and stops me becoming too parochial. Smile

I want to explain that I have never met anyone like you before, so loyal to your own form of worship. When I read your posts I thought you were just being argumentative, but I know now that you have genuine feelings and reasons for saying what you did. So I ask your forgiveness for offending you, together with this explanation, which I hope you will accept.

If you are an Anglican or not a Roman Catholic then, according to the present Pope your traditional ritual is AN OBSTACLE TO SALVATION. He even somewhat unusually, but nevertheless conveniently quotes the Bible to justify his claim.

The Pope (then Cardinal Ratzinger) said this in Dominus Iesus (Aug. 6, 2000): "If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a GRAVELY DEFICIENT situation in comparison with those who, in the [Catholic] Church, have the fullness of salvation" And, "The rituals of other religions.... insofar as they depend on superstitions or other errors (cf. 1 Cor 10:20-21), constitute AN OBSTACLE TO SALVATION."

DavidJ

menorot Wrote:

First, my precious sister, your grace and forgivemess has touched my heart. Thank you in Jesus' Precious Name.

I came to know Jesus as my personal Saviour at 9pm Sunday 12th April 1987 (a Palm Sunday almost 21 years ago at the age of 52 years) whilst on my way to a Birmingham (England) City Centre pub; if you are interested my testimony can read on the Testimony thread on http://forums.jewsforjesus.org/showthread.php?tid=663

I originate from Shrewsbury in Shropshire, which I am sure you know about as a very medieval town and birthplace of Charles Darwin but God has placed me in the 11th. most deprived borough in England right among the 'Tipton Taliban' where I am a very active evangelsit in Pubs, Clubs and among the homes of the local Asian community. I too have spent time in north west India and also in Pakistan; I also have an adopted Sikh family which now number in excess of 100 who now know Jesus.

I am not, as you suggest, loyal to my own form of worship. I have a wonderful relationship with our local Anglican Vicar (a woman to boot) and have enjoyed worship with them occassionally. I also speak (preach) by invitation to a number of Baptist and Methodist Churches on a regular basis. I am also in close fellowship with The Modern Jesus Army although I myself am member of an active and growing AOG Pentecostal Church.

I don't think AGENT OF GRACE will mind me mentioning this but amazingly just over one week ago we discovered that we both live in the same town; his Church and my Church are 'sisiter churches' - his pastor and my old pastor are very close friends. Amazing!

I feel much better now Sister, God is Good - ALL OF THE TIME.

Many blessings to you.....
DavidJ

Menerot,

I haven't read this thread but, more or less cruising by, noticed your website about your sweet dog Sheba. WHAT A BLESSING THAT WAS!!!

Thank you so much for creating that page! I love dogs (chows in particular), and I believe they teach us SO much about God's unconditional love!

I'm going to pass that page around to all my friends!

Shalom!

menorot Wrote:

I read a post in this forum recently, where the writer said, "God hates tradition."

The New Testament shows us that Jesus rebuked the scribes and the Pharisees for breaking the law for the sake of tradition. THAT, is when tradition is a no-no. tradition can be a false god! when the traditions become more important than god himself, they become god and god is out.  this is quite prevelant and people dont realize it.

go to any rabbi website and u see their mission statement.

THEY DO NOT SAY THAT THEY ARE WORKING TO SPREAD THE WORD OF THE LORD AND BRING PEACE ON EARTH, THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE PRESERVATION AND PROLIFERATION OF THE PEOPLE AND THE "STATE OF ISRAEL" . THEY FoRGOT GOD AND REMEMBER ONLY THE NATION OF ISRAEL.

(if they had true faith, they would know that god will preseve them but instead, they dont believe or trust and they not leaving anything in gods hands.  they dont say that, they just doing it)

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