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I read a post in this forum recently, where the writer said, "God hates tradition." I've been mulling this statement in my mind for a few days now, and I'd like to say something about tradition and why I find it very helpful in my Christian walk.

First, the statement itself: Is is true that God hates tradition? I can't be sure what the writer meant, but I cannot wholly agree, I can only say that I believe God probably hates empty, meaningless or hypocritical tradition.

When He created us he made us creatures of habit. Habits are important to humans, they help us get out of bed in the morning, walk the dog, go to work, cook the dinner, etc. I believe that God had this in mind when He gave us certain traditions to follow. He knows that by doing the same things over and over, or by reciting the same prayers again and again, He can help us to build deep personal faith and do those things that He wants us do do in obedience and faith. Let me give you an example of a good tradition. Jesus gave us a traditional prayer, and most Christians have said it day by day for over 2000 years:

"Our Father, who is in Heaven, hallowed be your name, your Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us today out daily bread. And forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For the Kingdom, the power and the glory are yours, for ever and ever, Amen.

I don't think anyone can be offended by such a traditional prayer. I can say a lot more about how good traditional prayers and liturgy can be if anyone wants to listen. God bless you all.

Pharisee on tradition:

Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Jesus' view on tradition:
  
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?


Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.  

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Paul's admonition:

Col 2:8 [b]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world[/b], and not after Christ.

Peter's admonition:

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

God gave laws....men adjusted some of these laws hence made a tradition of example...no work shall be done on the sabbath....
oops donkey fell into a pit...if we leave it...it may die...well God won't mind after all it not really work it a rescue mission and God will not mind...and before you know it you have a tradition....a slight then a major bending of God's laws until what is practised now has no basis in reality to what the law actually said or was meant to be.

  Tradition can be a curse as it is to the Jew... as the Fiddler on the Roof said...
'without tradition what would a Jew do?"

There is only one place where tradition is given in a positive light:

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Ah ha! you say they are being hypocritical...nope...
the writer is saying any man who walks unholy or unrighteously,living according to the traditions of men and not of God to withdraw from. If he  isn't following the tradition we have given.. which is?....Holiness Unto the LORD...to pray,read God's Word,speak gently,not given to riotous living,live peacably with all men.
This is the only tradition that God will accept.      

I am completely with Prophet on this one and would even go further.

With respect Menorot, you appear to be adding to scripture. Nowhere is it recorded that Jesus' Disciples asked for, or Jesus gave them, a 'traditional' prayer. A careful study of Gods Word reveals that Jesus was not telling us the actual words to be traditionally repeated as rote (rote: memorization by repetition). The Lords Prayer is not a prayer of rote; Jesus never said "Memorise and pray these words". If you read on from the Lords prayer in Mattew and Luke you will (or should) understand that Jesus was giving us a 'blueprint' of what to pray for - not the words to me memorised and repeated.

Jesus in fact warned us not to worship or pray by rote when He confirmed Isaiah Isaiah 29:13,“These people say they are mine.They honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote." Jesus was very clear when He quoted this passage from Isaiah by teaching,  "So, for the sake of your tradtion, you have made void the Word of God." (Matthew 15:7-9 RSV).


Where does the Bible teach that?


I wonder if you could unravel this statement for me please with some kind of scriptural basis. Obedience to faith? The last time I read my Bible it was "Obedience to Gods Word".

Where does scripture teach us to build up a deep persponal faith by traditional rote?  The last time I read The Word "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen..." (Hebrews 11:1 RSV)  Faith is obedience to God not knowing where your going or what will result (Hebrews 11:8) not by vain traditional rote.

DavidJ

I feel it is very sad that the people who answered my post deny God's gifts and use scripture for argument. Liturgical and traditional worship use the most beautiful and refined language to worship God. It reaches the parts other prayers and praises never reach. This does not mean I am denying the holiness of charismatic and spontaneous worship, I am just sad that anyone could want to cut himself off from the great blessings of traditional prayer.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, the Lord lift up the light of His countenance upon you and give you His peace. And the blessing of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit be with you and all those whom you love this day and for evermore. Amen.

In great love and respect to you Menoret, you are scripturally plain wrong.
No one has used scripture for 'argument' and no one is denying God's gifts.  Scripture itself is very clear on this subject, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work". (2 Timothy 3:16)


You appear here to be condemning those true born again Chrisitans who do not use Liturgical and traditional worship (because they don't know it) as not worshiping God in a manner not pleasing to God! You remind me of the prayer of the Pharisee, "'God, I thank Thee that I am not like other men..." (Luke 18:11) -  because your litergical traditional language is more pleasing to God. Your style of prayer and worship is much more holy and acceptable!  Is that what you are trying to teach us?


Which parts are those? The 'feel good factor' parts or those parts which are of the Holy Spirit? What parts do my humble prayers and praises never reach?


  Again, no one is "cuttinge themselves off"; we are seeking beauty and purity of The Truth of Gods Word. What 'great blessings' are you referring to? You appear to suggesting 'great blessings' are only received from "traditional prayer"  whilst "not denying the holiness of charismatic spontaneous worship".  The most wonderful prayer for me - a charismatic non traditionsal spontainious Christian is, "Nevertheless, not my will, but thy Will be done - IN ME"

DavidJ

At least we answered which, sadly, is more than I can give you credit for. I asked you a couple of questions in my post #3 which you have not answered..........


Where does the Bible teach that?


I wonder if you could unravel this statement for me please with some kind of scriptural basis. Obedience to faith? The last time I read my Bible it was "Obedience to Gods Word".

Where does scripture teach us to build up a deep persponal faith by traditional rote?

DavidJ

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Having said that...there is no such thing to God as traditional prayer...if You and I were having a relationship...as friends say and every time we met I kept saying the same things over and over or doing the same thing over and over how long would it be before you stopped listening to my "tradition" of doing the same thing over and over again?...not long.

  God is a God of RELATIONSHIP not tradition....He wants to have a relationship with him...to tell him our problems,our fears,our aspirations,he wants us to repent of our wrongdoing and listen to Him.
He also wants us to obey him....tradition is fine as long as it doesn't go against God's commands as the Pharisee's were doing by their vain traditions.

If I offended you it wasn't my intention and I apologise....
  

No, of course you didn't offend me.

I'm concerned about the Christians who come into this forum and who have a background of more traditional worship. I feel that they will be offended by some of the things that are posted here. I feel especially for Roman Catholics (no, I'm not one) who suffer a lot of abuse on this website. I love traditional worship. When I use liturgical prayers the Spirit of the Lord inspires me and hears me. I get great joy and know that I am closer to God when I use intelligently-worded, deeply reverent and thoughtful prayers. Of course I also pray with tongues and extemporarily, too. I just don't want people to be put off by some of the faith-damaging posts here.

Here is a nice modern liturgical and topical prayer. Many churches will be using it as of tonight (Saturday) and through next week, and it will be a joy and blessing to all who pray it in the Spirit.

"O God, who by the leading of a star manifested your only Son to the peoples of the earth: mercifully grant that we, who know you now by faith, may at last behold your glory face to face; through Jesus Christ your Son our Lord, who is alive and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen."

I have said everything I wanted to say in this thread now. If anyone has paged down through all the postings, and wants to know more about the subject, please feel welcome to send me a private message.

There are a couple of websites I can refer folks to:

http://daily.commonworship.com/daily.cgi?today_ep=1 is a daily web site for evening prayer, which uses modern liturgy. I use this site quite a lot.

http://www.stpixels.com is a nice peaceful online church with helpers who are friendly and helpful. There is no trolling or offensive stuff there. There is an active church worship session every night at 2100 GMT.

God bless

The only person that has been banned for abusing others whilst I have been here is in fact a Roman Catholic.  If you can FUus where a Roman Catholic has been abused then you should be specific and not make these kind unsubstantiated offensive false accusations and then walk away with "I have said everything I wanted to say in this thread now." However, nothing you have said so far has been backed up with Scripture and requests for you to do so have been totally ignored. If your not going to discuss why come onto a discussion forum in the first place unless you have some alternative agenda that you have not dislosed?

Unlike your statements here, everything that has been said concerning Roman Catholicism on this website has been honestly and truthfully supported by Holy Scripture and crediblly authenticated by documentary and historic evidence. For you to twist this to 'causing offence'  appears to be unashamed manipulation on your part - which none of your traditional prayers and pious litergy can change; a plain explaination and maybe apology dein tiy would have more Christian credibility in my humble view.

DavidJ