I got the Jewish name. I'm sensing a calling to get in touch with my Jewish side (Messianic version...I love Jesus!). But it only comes from my father (thus the Jewish name)...
I've been reading the internet and blogs on this site and I'm getting the impression there's no such thing as fractional Jewish. Your either Jewish or your not. I read only once that it comes from the father side...I'm reading mostly that it comes from the mother. The more I think about it it makes sense because Jesus' mother was Jewish and his father was God. We all know Jesus is Jewish.
Do you mean to tell me I have a Jewish name and I'm "0" Jewish? Same with my kids? I bet the Germans would have accepted me and my kids in one of their lovely camps! I don't think they cared, as long as you had some percentage you'd be welcome - right? Doesn't seem fair!
So even if I switched from Baptist to Messianic, I wouldn't be fully accepted as any % Jewish. If that's the case, my mystery is solved...stay Baptist.
Please comment. Thanks
In Jewish thought, 25% or 60% Jewish doesn't make sense. Either a person is Jewish or they aren't. No Jewish person would say someone is 50% Jewish.
While the traditional Jewish view is that a child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, Conservative and Reform Judaism accepts a child as Jewish if the mother or father is Jewish. So, if your father is Jewish and your mother isn't Jewish, some will accept you as Jewish and some won't.
Yeshua doesn't ask if you are Jewish. Anyone, Jew or Gentile, who believes on Him can be saved. 'Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.'
Since you weren't raised Jewish/practicing Judaism, like many who were not raised in Judaism who attend a Messianic Synagogue, you would have to spend time learning Jewish things and traditions. If your desire is to be accepted as Jewish, you will get some acceptance and some rejection. If God is calling you into something, should acceptance or rejection be a motivating factor? I believe God puts us into a community of believers, to learn, grow, and to serve that community. Keep praying to see where God would have you be a part of a community of believers.
I've been reading the internet and blogs on this site and I'm getting the impression there's no such thing as fractional Jewish. Your either Jewish or your not.
Judaism holds one is either a Jew or not; there is no "part Jew".
Reform accepts patrilineal descent if you are raised Jewish
exclusively. Conservative and Orthodoxy only hold by a Jewish
mother. So by all branches of Judaism, you are not a Jew.
But....what does it matter? If you are concerned with belonging
to a Messianic community rather than the Jewish community, it
should not be an issue for you.
Do you mean to tell me I have a Jewish name and I'm "0" Jewish? Same with my kids? I bet the Germans would have accepted me and my kids in one of their lovely camps! I don't think they cared, as long as you had some percentage you'd be welcome - right? Doesn't seem fair!
With all due respect, the Nazis are not the ones who decide
who is Jewish, no matter what definition you use of "who is a Jew".
[quote]
So even if I switched from Baptist to Messianic, I wouldn't be fully accepted as any % Jewish. If that's the case, my mystery is solved...stay Baptist.[/uqote]
Judaism would not accept you as Jewish, but if you are not involved in
the Jewish community, what would it matter? Messianic Jews (those who
are halachly Jewish) seem, from what I have seen on forums, to accept
the Orthodox view of one being Jewish only if one's mother is Jewish.
But there is no set doctrine in Messinaic beliefs.
I got the Jewish name. I'm sensing a calling to get in touch with my Jewish side (Messianic version...I love Jesus!). But it only comes from my father (thus the Jewish name)...
- Isaac was the child of the promise, the first Jewish man. Issac was 100% Jewish.
- Rebekah was a gentile (Isaac was the only Jewish man at the time). Jacob and Esau were both 50% Jewish, hence Jewish because of their dad.
- "Two nations": Edomites represent non-Messianic Jewish people; the twelve tribes of Israel come from 12 men, each 25% Jewish. The 12 sons of Jacob are Jewish through their dad.
- The sons of Judah and Tamar, each 12.5% Jewish, and the sons of Joseph (also 12.5% Jewish) marry back into Israel.
- Anyone who is 100%-12.5% Jewish is Jewish through either parent.
With all due respect, the Nazis are not the ones who decide
who is Jewish, no matter what definition you use of "who is a Jew".
Your Talmudist cohanim are also ones who don't decide who is Jewish (Isaiah 29:13-14). Because of your Talmudists, those like Ephraim and Manasseh, who were 1/8-Jewish, cry beyond the grave as unrecognized Jewish victims of the Shoah. 6,000,000 my eye- there are people with Jewish dads and gentile mothers who make 6,000,000+ become way too low of a number.
GoyOfY'shua,
Just as a point of clarification, the 6,000,000 figure refers to Jews whether they would be considered Halakhically Jews or not. The total figure of dead was around 12,000,000, which included Roma (Gypsies), Communists, Homosexuals, Poles, Catholics, and many other groups. Regarding the Jewish figure, Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial and research foundation in Israel quotes
"There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29–6 million. The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible."
Those counted as Jews and sent to the camps were numbered as Jews for a variety of reasons based on a variety of criteria and suppositions. Your comments about the figure being much higher by a different count
"6,000,000 my eye- there are people with Jewish dads and gentile mothers who make 6,000,000+ become way too low of a number."
is not an accurate statement based on this information.
In addition, please be careful when using phrases such as "Your Talmudist cohanim" as a rant against those that you disagree with and then citing inflammatory issues such as the Shoah to make your point. Your information was in the end provably inaccurate and is potentially hurtful. The Jews of rabbinical tradition have suffered hugely throughout their history for their beliefs within the "talmudist" stream, and the dead from Pogroms, Crusades, Inquisition, Shoah, and on and on, deserve at the very least a modicum of respect for their faithfulness to their understanding of Torah, whether you agree with it or not.
GoyOfY'shua,
Just as a point of clarification, the 6,000,000 figure refers to Jews whether they would be considered Halakhically Jews or not. The total figure of dead was around 12,000,000, which included Roma (Gypsies), Communists, Homosexuals, Poles, Catholics, and many other groups. Regarding the Jewish figure, Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial and research foundation in Israel quotes
"There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29–6 million. The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible."
Those counted as Jews and sent to the camps were numbered as Jews for a variety of reasons based on a variety of criteria and suppositions. Your comments about the figure being much higher by a different count
"6,000,000 my eye- there are people with Jewish dads and gentile mothers who make 6,000,000+ become way too low of a number."
is not an accurate statement based on this information.
In addition, please be careful when using phrases such as "Your Talmudist cohanim" as a rant against those that you disagree with and then citing inflammatory issues such as the Shoah to make your point. Your information was in the end provably inaccurate and is potentially hurtful. The Jews of rabbinical tradition have suffered hugely throughout their history for their beliefs within the "talmudist" stream, and the dead from Pogroms, Crusades, Inquisition, Shoah, and on and on, deserve at the very least a modicum of respect for their faithfulness to their understanding of Torah, whether you agree with it or not.
Great post; and welcome to the forum!
GoyOfY'shua,
Just as a point of clarification, the 6,000,000 figure refers to Jews whether they would be considered Halakhically Jews or not.
I give bupkis to the Talmud and cohanic halakhah. I read the Tanakh and Brit Chadashah; and some who were not counted as Jewish, whether by Talmudists or gentiles, were either spared (because they were 1/8 Jewish, like Ephraim; hence seen as gentile) or unrecognized (for the reason why some were spared). The Talmudists probably were more anti-Semitic: self-haters who saw some Jewish people as goyim.
Sheitl Queen,
Thank you for the note and the welcome -- very much appreciated.
GoyofY'shua,
I posted with factual clarifications. Please read my complete posts before replying to them with a level of discourse that is designed to be incendiary. Your final statment . . .
"The Talmudists probably were more anti-Semitic: self-haters who saw some Jewish people as goyim."
. . . is what is considered an ad hominem argument -- you resorted to, in essence, name calling to deflect the fact that your earlier post does not have factual backing, merely emotional suppositions. Does your chosen religion actually support this type of retoric? Does this reflect the "fruits of the spirit" described in Galatians 5? If you wish merely to mock the beliefs and practice of sincere people that devote their lives to Torah and Tikkun Olam, please let me know now so I do not continue trying to engage in a one-sided conversation.
Thanks everyone for taking the time out to respond. I really sense your caring. GoyOfY'shua, you use words (slang?) I don't understand. I guess they are from Jewish culture? Eventhough I don't know what you are talking about, thanks!
Everyone, please tell me if this has any validity regarding this issue: Jesus didn't have a Jewish father because God is His father. Do we all agree that Jesus is Jewish? If so, we are agreeing that it came from Mary
*This agrees with the people that say it comes from the mother only
*This disagrees with those that say it comes from the father only
*GoyOfY'shua, I believe you are saying it can come from either right? If so, this agrees with you too.
Or do all you guys think God is Jewish
