JFJ Forums

Not so much related to this thread.. but I think these are a good series of vids:

Think It Thru

May lead to more discussion..?

The point is most of the posters here and members of jfj are NOT of a Jewish background.

Oh, there is A LOT of discussion on Mr. Brown. Would you like the forum that addresses his claims?

Great speaker. Very factual.

Doesn't change Torah though.

No one wants to change the Torah.  You mean doesn't change the "traditional Rabbinic interpreatation" of Torah - right?  The Rabbis have made hundreds of changes in their interpretations of (and rulings on how to keep) Torah over the centuries.  Dr. Brown is simply presenting a different branch (which happens to be the largest in the world) of interpreation.  How do you know which "tradition" is correct?  One couldn't hold that the Rabbi's are divinenly inspired and innerant because they contradict each other.  So how does one arrive at truth?  By prayerfully, humbly, and unbiasedly (as humanly possible) reading and interpreteting the text.

2Ch 7:14 - "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

We can't approach the Scriptures by putting an interpretation we like on them - an interpretation that makes us feel good about ourselves (like saying we must not have to do blood sacrifices because the temple is gone - or worse yet saying atonement was never necessary anyway).  We must humbly ask G-d to reveal the Scriptures to us by being brutally honest and speaking truth to us.  We have to be willing to let the Scriptures cut us to the heart, breaking down our pride, bringing forth tears of repentance.  We must not ask G-d to just help us out of our problems, but rather we must cry out for forgiveness for our sin and ask for spiritual redemption.  We all know down deep we have a closet full of darkness we need cleaned out - right?  The Messianic faith asks one to examine themselves and recognize their need for atonement (like the Torah says to do on Yom Kippur - the day on which the nation repents and the high priest provides atonement for the nation).  Then cry out to G-d with repentance and ask for forgiveness, and redemption (undeserved salvation/atonement).  And with that heart, search the Scriptures for the words of our Redeemer.  G-d promises to be that forgiver of sin, that Redeemer, that Savior for all those who will come.  But to come, we must humble ourselves ("only the penitent man will pass") before our Holy and Righteous G-d.  No one will enter the kingdom of G-d with boasting...

http://www.livingwaters.com/good

ThirdDay,

You said;
"We must not ask G-d to just help us out of our problems, but rather we must cry out for forgiveness for our sin and ask for spiritual redemption.  We all know down deep we have a closet full of darkness we need cleaned out - right?"

and

"Then cry out to G-d with repentance and ask for forgiveness, and redemption (undeserved salvation/atonement).  And with that heart, search the Scriptures for the words of our Redeemer.  G-d promises to be that forgiver of sin, that Redeemer, that Savior for all those who will come."

SMR:

I agree with you 100% on the above. King David did so, the prophets did so. The Jewish people do so. The Hebrew Bible tells us to do so. It doesn't say you need a messiah to do so. That is the difference.

As far as the last line goes(G-d promises to be that forgiver of sin, that Redeemer, that Savior for all those who will come), just read my postscript. That just about sums it up

This has probably been asked and answered somewhere along the way and I am new to this board... but SMR, your signature scriptures, obvious to state that you say that Jesus is not I AM... I am sure you know the doctrine of the Trinity.

So, in Genesis, when God says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:..."

then

"So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Us/our and then He...one? many? higher? lower? or TRINITY?
Who "walked with Adam"? Who "wrestled with Jacob"? Who "spoke and ate with Abram"?

It's all there for us, compare one book to another. Search and search again. Ask God to open your eyes of your heart.

As for me, the 66 books tell one story, not two.

Jesus addresses the Jewish leadership/wisdom:
Matthew chapter 23

Starting with: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe..."

This message is to Jews, not gentiles.

It's not as if the Jews have some "greater faith" or "knowledge"... time and again they leave the LORD... even when Moses was on the Mountain receiving the Law, they "knew" (because it was most obvious) he was dead and began to make idols and worship them. After they had WITNESSED the curses and miracles FIRST-HAND that had freed them from Egypt!

The point is that Jews can be mislead, as can anyone. Read what God has given us AS IT IS, without rabbinical preconditions and presupositions.

The more I learn about Judaism, the more it reminds me of Roman Catholicism. The shepards tell the flock what THEY THINK God has said, or, more importantly: what THEY WANT US TO THINK God said. When God has given it to us all to "reason with Him" directly.

What was the first deception? "Did God really say....?" Don't add or take away.. just stick with what HE said.

(Eve, the first in the rabbinical heritage.... /sarc)

Ripleys,


You ask too many questions at one time and most of them have been discussed over and over again (say for about, 2000 years?).

So you think just because G-d says "Let US make man in our image in means a trinity? How do you get three out of that? Sound like a guess to me. How do you know us doesn't mean 2 or 4 or 5? Because you make it to be what you want it to say.

Look at a comentary on the bottom of the page in a new NIV bible. It explains who "us" is.

My eyes ARE open. It's just that you see what you want, and I see what is actually there.

Hello again smr - I enjoy our discussions.  I hope you and your family are well.

What do you need Messiah for then - just to take care of the bully gentiles that oppress Israel?  This would be a very shallow view of Messiah - I doubt this is your view.

The Messiah is not just supposed to be King (like David), but also prophet (like Moses) and high priest!  He is a descendent of David, yet also a prophet and a high priest (in the order of Melchizedech who also was not a descendent of Aaron).  Carefully read the book of Zecharaiah and you'll see what I mean.  An open and honest study of this prophet may bring many things to light...

Blessings in Messiah

Agreed. But, then, what is the point of the site?

So, has the discussion of the Messiah, for longer than 2000, am I correct? With differing views even among Jews?

And of God. Real "person", or allegory?

So, should we all just stop discussing?




I don't know about "most" since I am new here. I am not Jewish. Only "grafted in".

ThirdDay,


That is the whole problem.

You said:
"What do you need Messiah for then - just to take care of the bully gentiles that oppress Israel? This would be a very shallow view of Messiah - I doubt this is your view."

SMR:
It has NOTHING to do with MY view. It is what the Hebrew Bible says over and over.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (KJV)

11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. (KJV)

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (KJV)