JFJ Forums - Papal Infallibility or Papal Inerrancy?

CustomDesigned Wrote:

.....because Eric, like you, confused papal infallibility with papal inerrancy.

The above was posted on another thread. The author suggests that certain non-Roman Catholics confuse papal infallibility with papal inerrancy. The Bible is very clear that no human being is either infallible or inerrant. I believe that both Orthodox Jews and Bible Believing Christian may agree on this point.

However, our Roman Catholic member may like to provide scriptural authority as to whether the following papal 'announcements are infallible or inerrant......

Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

“it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour - Pope John Paul II

The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the beatitudes: the poor in spirit; the pure in heart; those who will lovingly [endure] the sufferings of life; will enter God's kingdom. All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His Church, contribute under the influence of grace, to the building of this kingdom - Pope John Paul II

DavidJ

DavidJ Wrote:

However, our Roman Catholic member may like to provide scriptural authority as to whether the following papal 'announcements are infallible or inerrant......

They are neither, and scriptural authority is irrelevant because your problem is with basic logic. Only ex-cathedra papal statements are "infallible" (according to Catholics). Tip: if you want to prove that what someone says is wrong, then you need to attack what they actually said - not something logically unrelated but easy to attack.

I'm not sure who you meant by "our Roman Catholic member". I am not Catholic, and I don't believe in papal infallibility. It's just that it's getting rather annoying having to wade through all this charred straw.

CustomDesigned Wrote:

......scriptural authority is irrelevant .....

Clearly you have identified the huge chasm between yourself; a Roman Catholic, and Bible Believing born again Christians like myself, to whom scriptural authority is absolute and final. Jesus confirmed this when He said, "Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth." (John. 17:17)

David J

CustomDesigned Wrote:

I am not Catholic, and I don't believe in papal infallibility.

Really? You certainly had me fooled! Perhaps then you are advocatus diaboli ?

DavidJ

DavidJ Wrote:

CustomDesigned Wrote:

......scriptural authority is irrelevant because your problem is with basic logic .....

Clearly you have identified the huge chasm between yourself; a Roman Catholic, and Bible Believing born again Christians like myself, to whom scriptural authority is absolute and final. Jesus confirmed this when He said, "Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth." (John. 17:17)

You are right. I repent of using logic and reason, and will use only Scripture - throwing logic and reason to the wind. How about this for starters:

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Matt 27:5
Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.Luke 10:37
Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. John 13:27

CustomDesigned Wrote:

DavidJ Wrote:

CustomDesigned Wrote:

......scriptural authority is irrelevant because your problem is with basic logic .....

Clearly you have identified the huge chasm between yourself; a Roman Catholic, and Bible Believing born again Christians like myself, to whom scriptural authority is absolute and final. Jesus confirmed this when He said, "Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth." (John. 17:17)

You are right. I repent of using logic and reason, and will use only Scripture - throwing logic and reason to the wind. How about this for starters...

Sarcastic, "CustomDesigned",
Don't try to make DavidJ illogical or irrational.

DavidJ Wrote:

CustomDesigned Wrote:

.....because Eric, like you, confused papal infallibility with papal inerrancy.

The above was posted on another thread. The author suggests that certain non-Roman Catholics confuse papal infallibility with papal inerrancy. The Bible is very clear that no human being is either infallible or inerrant. I believe that both Orthodox Jews and Bible Believing Christian may agree on this point.

However, our Roman Catholic member may like to provide scriptural authority as to whether the following papal 'announcements are infallible or inerrant......

Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

“it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour - Pope John Paul II

The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the beatitudes: the poor in spirit; the pure in heart; those who will lovingly [endure] the sufferings of life; will enter God's kingdom. All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His Church, contribute under the influence of grace, to the building of this kingdom - Pope John Paul II

DavidJ

David,
I have family members who are members of the Roman Catholic church. I am very interested in knowing the source (for verification purposes) of the above papal quotes. I do not doubt the authenticity of these quotes but I am concerned that my brother will.
Thanks so much

MattMinahan Wrote:

DavidJ

David,
I have family members who are members of the Roman Catholic church. I am very interested in knowing the source (for verification purposes) of the above papal quotes. I do not doubt the authenticity of these quotes but I am concerned that my brother will.
Thanks so much

i am not davidj, i am the david without the j.

tell ur brother to go these two sites.

let me say this and all pay attn good.

jesus said to believe ON his name!!!!! THIS MEANS TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOTSTEPS AND DO GOOD AND NOT EVIL. now the truth is this, he that does good and not evil (such as a righteous jew) does not need to know that jesus is saving him. if he is doing what he is supposed to do he or she is fine. DONT LET ANY DEVIL TELL U THAT POPE IS CHANGING THE LAWS OR THAT THIS MEANS THAT WE DONT NEED JESUS TO BE SAVED!!!! EVERYONE NEEDS JESUS TO BE SAVED. THE POPE IS MERELY SAYING THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO KNOW IT.

jesus said, 'u must be innocent to enter the kingdom of god.' a person who denies christ as the savior IS NOT INNOCENT. the innocent good guy will say, 'i dont know'. because he is goodness and truth he will not behave like he knows.

http://www.romancatholicism.org/jpii-aud............. item 3

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-...-religions
ANYONE GIVES U A QUOTE THAT U NEED KNOW ABOUT, COPY (RIGHT CLICK) AND PASTE INTO GOOGLE SEARCH BAR. U GONNA GET MORE THAT U ASK FOR. U MAY EVEN FIND URSELF, NO FOOLIN!

[/quote]

MattMinahan Wrote:

DavidJ Wrote:

CustomDesigned Wrote:

.....because Eric, like you, confused papal infallibility with papal inerrancy.

The above was posted on another thread. The author suggests that certain non-Roman Catholics confuse papal infallibility with papal inerrancy. The Bible is very clear that no human being is either infallible or inerrant. I believe that both Orthodox Jews and Bible Believing Christian may agree on this point.

However, our Roman Catholic member may like to provide scriptural authority as to whether the following papal 'announcements are infallible or inerrant......

Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

“it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour - Pope John Paul II

The Gospel teaches us that those who live in accordance with the beatitudes: the poor in spirit; the pure in heart; those who will lovingly [endure] the sufferings of life; will enter God's kingdom. All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His Church, contribute under the influence of grace, to the building of this kingdom - Pope John Paul II

DavidJ

David,
I have family members who are members of the Roman Catholic church. I am very interested in knowing the source (for verification purposes) of the above papal quotes. I do not doubt the authenticity of these quotes but I am concerned that my brother will.
Thanks so much

Hi MattMinahan,

Yes, I am happy to provide the source.

Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope

Refers to St. Augustine's Commentary on Psalm 136(137)

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).

See: Pope Benedict XVI's general audience, Nov. 30 2005.

David

david Wrote:

MattMinahan Wrote:

DavidJ

David,
I have family members who are members of the Roman Catholic church. I am very interested in knowing the source (for verification purposes) of the above papal quotes. I do not doubt the authenticity of these quotes but I am concerned that my brother will.
Thanks so much

i am not davidj, i am the david without the j.

tell ur brother to go these two sites.

let me say this and all pay attn good.

jesus said to believe ON his name!!!!! THIS MEANS TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOTSTEPS AND DO GOOD AND NOT EVIL. now the truth is this, he that does good and not evil (such as a righteous jew) does not need to know that jesus is saving him. if he is doing what he is supposed to do he or she is fine. DONT LET ANY DEVIL TELL U THAT POPE IS CHANGING THE LAWS OR THAT THIS MEANS THAT WE DONT NEED JESUS TO BE SAVED!!!! EVERYONE NEEDS JESUS TO BE SAVED. THE POPE IS MERELY SAYING THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO KNOW IT.

jesus said, 'u must be innocent to enter the kingdom of god.' a person who denies christ as the savior IS NOT INNOCENT. the innocent good guy will say, 'i dont know'. because he is goodness and truth he will not behave like he knows.

http://www.romancatholicism.org/jpii-aud............. item 3

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/for-...-religions
ANYONE GIVES U A QUOTE THAT U NEED KNOW ABOUT, COPY (RIGHT CLICK) AND PASTE INTO GOOGLE SEARCH BAR. U GONNA GET MORE THAT U ASK FOR. U MAY EVEN FIND URSELF, NO FOOLIN!

[/quote]