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Perhaps I should throw in the concept of Hypostasis, which tells us how God works as a Trinity.  God the Father's mind and wisdom and ability to communicate is so powerful that it is literally personified, within the Father's heart, and since this aspect of the invisible God is the communicating aspect of the Father, He is the one who as God and incarnate as a man as He did 2000 years ago, is the projection of His very self, hence why Jesus says, "He who has seen me has seen the Father", even though none of us has seen the Father, or can, why Jesus is the visible likeness of the invisible God as Paul says and is the exact representation of His being as Hebrews tell us.  The Holy Spirit is the personified power and authority of the Father and Son combined.  This process of projection is non-stop and goes on eternally, and never began, hence why the Christmas carol says that Jesus was begotten, not created.

Why did Jesus pray to the Father?  Well, in His humbling as a human, who else was Jesus going to worship?  He died on the Cross as a human, not tapping into His Deity, which did occur when He was resurrected.  

Funny, nobody slags off the Kabbalists for believing God is One in Ten Persons!

My brother asks, who are the other seven?  Cheeky!

Just for clarification - what you've stated is clearly not the orthodox (Trinitarian, i.e. Biblical) view of the G-dhead.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 distinct personalities who relate to and love each other, like 3 members of a very tightly unified family named Yahwey.

Blessings in Messiah!

So you don't think Israel needs G-d to circumsize their heart?  You reject G-d's decree of the new covenant?

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbour, and each man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they will all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

c.f. Psalms 31:1 How blessed is he who's transgression is forgiven, who's sin is covered!

No need for the Messiah?  No need for G-d's coming redemption, etc.  Israel will accomplish her destiny by her own works?  Or does Israel indeed need G-d's gracious and merciful intervention?

Blessings in Messiah!

Third Day,

Yes!

We need:
G-d to circumsize our heart.

We need:
the messiah to arrive.

We need:
G-d's gracious and merciful intervention.

Always have.

We also must abide by His Word as He and the Prophets continually express. As it is written in Jeremiah: I will put my law within them, and on their heart I will write it.


Where in Jeremaih 31:31, that you like to quote so often, does it mention anywhere that a messiah will be part of this? Looks to me as if Hashem "will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more" without ever mentioning a need for a sacrifice, let alone a human, messiah or "part of the godhead" sacrifice.

Nothing! No sacrifice required!

Here is your dilemma.
If one says the "new covenant" is in effect, then I ask why you continue to "spread the good news" since Hashem says you don't have to and that everyone will no the one true G-d of Israel.

If one says the "new covenant" is yet to arrive, then we see no need to be "saved from our sins" since Hashem clearly states HE will forgive and forget, with NO mention of a sacrifice.

SMR,

The new covenant (given by G-d to Israel) has not been fulfilled.  As I've mentioned before, some Jews and Gentiles have received the same  blessings described in this covenant, but the original covenant was promised to Israel as a nation and she has not receive it yet.  But Paul reminds us that she will in Romans 11.  But for now:

Deu 29:4 Yet the LORD has not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Blessings in Messiah!

p.s.  Yes I agree Jer 31 doesn't mention how G-d would provide the atonement which is required to restore relationship with Him (but of course you shouldn't ASSUME no sacrifice is required, especially given all the descriptions in Torah of how sin is to be removed, in particular the Yom Kippur rites - right?).  Nor does Jer 31:31-34 directly mention Messiah.  Those teachings are discussed in other places.  Why would you demand ALL this be explained in this one particular passage?

Actually, I am a traditional Trinitarian, I was describing the mechanaism of Hypostasis by which the Father begets the Son eternally and the Father and the Son beget eternally the Spirit.  

(The Spirit begat the Son physically as a human.  Also, since I said that the Son is the personified Wisdom of the Father, not the Father Himself, then He is a distinct Person in His own right.  Ditto with the Spirit.  Check out Athanasius and the debate surrounding Nicaea, and you will see that the concept of Hypostasis was one of the things which alongside the concept of Ousia, the substance, won the day in favour of proper orthodox Trinitarianism.  

i wasn't talking about the community of love which you are, Third Day, but the actual mechanism of existence which enables God to be three distinct Persons, while still being the one Being.  

Hi Goonerman,

Where do the Scriptures teach:

the Spirit was begotten by the Father and the Son?
the Son is personified Wisdom of the Father?

Blessings in Messiah!

p.s.  BTW, my "family of Yahway" description may not be the most accurate way to describe the G-dhead, but it seems to me like a reasonable way of reconciling the descriptions of G-d in Scripture.

Shannonk
I'm so glad you changed the subject your questions and persistence sure changed the mood of this thread.
As far as answers I will warn you that your questions while wonderful will lead to more questions. I've been asking them for a while and have found text that relate but nothing is completely consistent.  
Your not the only Christian asking. I found a book in the christian book store that suggest the Jesus came for the gentiles not the Jews.
We say Jesus is the root of Jesse :  Isa 11:10-13 explains this root as a ensign of the people that the gentiles will seek. The ending goal is that Ephraim wouldn't envy Judah and Judah wouldn't vex Ephraim.  Paul is also concerned about the question of the Jews being saved.  Romans 11 is his answer.  In short he shares a secret about G-d's timing and a warning not to Judge those branches who were cut off.  He says it's temporary and we were blessed by their misunderstanding.  Yet we will be blessed even more at their receiving the kingdom which can not happen until all gentiles have accepted it. ThisTheory says that we have both knowledge and ignorance based on G-d timing not ours.

My answer to Trinity problems is that in places where there is no trinity doctrine the church was overun by Islam.

Also, Echad is not absolute numerical one.

Our ideas about personhood come from the way the personages of the God head relate to one another.

And here is a new one, we can trust God even though we don't have all the answers as seen in all of God's questions in Job.

We trust God because we don't have all the answers not just in spite of not having all the answers.