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YoY~



It's nice to be able to throw out accusations, but another thing to back it.

Simply put, YoY, you lie.

I could care less about denominations; that is pretty much central to every single post of mine. How many times have I told YOU "there are two groups of people in this world: His and Not His"??

I was fighting the message-length limitation, and managed to edit my own mesg awkwardly.

Sorry!

I want to be clear that I think the Catholic system is managed by people who I see (and I think the Bible describes,) as being very unholy -- ie., child abuse is something that angers God!

But please notice that I don't place all Catholics in this category, that story about what happened at the Orsen Wells movie house I wrote to describe some earnest Catholics who were, I believe, working effectively for God, and who God backed up when it was clear that the theatre management had decided to ignore them.

I am 62 today.  When I was 12 I declared myself to be an atheist, and remained one until I became a Christian at age 25.

But when I was 15, something happened.  I got spinal meninghitis, and was completely paralyzed.  Everything except my right arm and hand, which I could, with substantial effort, move a slight amount -- but I'm left handed!!!

So there I was, in the hospital (Children's Variety hospital in Coral Gables, Florida.)  It's since changed it's name and been reorganized, but it's still a hospital.

And in 1962, early summer, some Christians (a family,) had spent a lot of effort witnessing to me, (a Jew.)

And I mocked them and treated them very badly.  (Which was a very stupid and evil thing.  Read what happened...)

This was in June, at the beginning of the summer.

Well, later that summer, in August, as I recall, I came down with spinal meninghitis and was first put into one hospital, where they did a spinal tap, and then, seeing that I had this disease, and knowing I wasn't going to recover from the paralaysis, I was transferred to Childrens Variety in CG, Florida.

Well, that same family of Christians went to church twice a week, once on Sunday and once mid-week.  And hearing from neighborhood sources that I was in the hospital, they prayed for me at their mid-week evening service.

The next morning -- I was healed.  Twice I had spinal tap confirmation of the disease, (both hospitals did spinal taps,) and I really was completely paralyzed.  But God had plans;  Part of His plans involved giving me this illness.  

That family didn't just pray for my recovery, they also prayed for me to become a Christian.  And when I was 25, I did.

My point:  I am not the only person God helps -- and I don't think He checks the church denomination of a Christian either, or anyone He is about to help.  Remember, when he did this I was an atheist and in fact I hated God (I am ashamed of this today.)

So when we look at Catholic's, let's not forget that some within that large body of people are Christians.  Do I think it's for me and my wife?  No!!

But that's me.  Your milage may vary.

Many times since then I've been sick with a cold or other minor ailment -- and prayed.  Nope, nothing.  And God knows what he's doing!

I had made a comment in the crosswalk chatroom concerning Catholicism
and had to explain myself. Before bibles were readily available in a language people could understand, (I beleieve they call it "The Dark Ages") a lot of things were done that were by all standards unchristlike.

When religious aristocracy began to realize their intellectual dominion had been breached, the common man began to get his say in such matters as government AND religion.

Upon further intellectual examination, they saw it to be a good thing
that the populus be educated for it provided order and for the benefit
of the people it called the governing powers to accountability before God Himself.

I have read the posts on this subject with great interest and not a little sadness.  I am a Catholic married to a Jew and consider myself to be reasonably tolerant of religious differences.  I am ashamed that people who call themselves Christian, whether a convert or born, can be so vitriolic in their condemnation of whatever denomination is being discussed.

However, there are a number of mistaken impressions I wish to correct regarding Catholics and their idea of Christianity.  Many of us are of Irish Catholic background and do not consider we should evangelise - it is not taught to us to do this so when people come to our door to talk of being "born again" we are embarassed and say we are "Catholic". It is a polite way of saying "please go".  We have also been taught from an early age to "not let our left hand know what the right is doing" when it comes to Christian actions.  Thus you would not be aware of the thousands of Catholic Christians who have given their lives that others might live. You would know, of course, that it is part of our faith that we assist others at all times (doing a "mitzvah") hence the education for all, the hospitals, the soup kitchens, the various charities which we are called on to support.  These stem from our Saviour, Jesus Christ, who was, of course, in His earthly life, schooled in the Jewish tradition of charity.

Our spirituality comes from our prayer life, from the Mass and the sacraments, the graces we earn through prayer and action on behalf of our Lord. We live our lives as best we can with the Beatitudes as our guiding force and from the prayer given to us from Jesus Christ - the "Our Father" and from our devotion to Our Lady and the Saints whose lives we try to emulate (falling far short!).

Remember that we are human with the gift of free will.  It is human beings who sin and each person is answerable to God. Whatever you might think of Catholics or Jews or Muslims or atheists, it is by their actions that you will know them.

PS catholic means universal so to be a Catholic means to be a member of the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church".  We are sometimes called Roman to differentiate between the various rites but we are all Catholic.

It struck me as funny that some people do not readily put the past behind as well as others. The most important theological concept to me is "Why did, or what for, did God create us. What was his purpose?

Is there purpose in doctrinal differences?

Here is the paradox-

Few have the audacity  to speak up against half truths, say for instance
false doctrines deviating from the teachings of Christ. They asked Moses- who made you a judge and a ruler over me? Moses was God's spokesman, a deliverer, God's delegated authority. He was champion of a portion of the truth, and a hero of sorts.

Jesus of Nazareth, THE TRUTH, exposed heresy like never before and he in turn laid down His life to show the reality of the cross he has asked us to carry. Is Jesus your hero?

Keeping the blood covenant in mind- God never dies, therefore
we are the ones, mankind, who owe the blood price. Jesus God's Son paid this price in our stead. His righteousness (not ours) qualified him to do so.

The Catholics didn't, the Baptist didn't, The Jewish nation didn't, the Gentiles (non Jews) didn't either.

There are a lot of people on the planet today, and the truth is still available.

Maybe this is the reason for a diversity of choices in how, where, when and why we can worship/honor God.

Fullmark

Thanks for your post, how did you celebrate Pesach? for the post is from yesterday?
Anyway I agree with the religious tolerance and huge parts of your writing.
Besides that my knowledge is that my family was not helped by an Evangelical StateChurch of Saxony wich policy was not to help Jews (evev if they where Christian).

So their are 2 weak points. In your writing it looks like that every person tries to do his best. But the topic is mainly about institutions and policy in large decided by the ''highest'' cardinals etc.
2nd weak point is (besides that during war free wil and getting answers from other relious persons motives is difficult).: That Cardinals are not to question by the people often and if the Pope speaks something in ''Ex cathedra'' and in infallibility than it's going to be difficult for others.
Even Adolf H. made use of it, when he got the agreement of the pope, that people without citizenship, or enemies from a state, should be dealth with by the state and not by the Church (a churchlaw from about 1930). Than Adolf also wrote his book mainly in a traditional way, using Luther and the Catholic history, for people will not condemn it easily. Meaning that Catholics in 1940 where not allowed to read the bible, darwin, luther, marx etc. etc. but Mein Kampf never came on the index of forbidden books to read. Accepting that it could be printed and spread it arround to catholic houses also.....

So by the actions of a Saxony State Church my father learned me what actions the church also can do. About Catholics I wrote later, although in Holland we remember as Jews the Spanish inquisition. Plus if you look further in the past the taking over from the Catholics of Ireland, and later the Dutch-orange-groups as protestants who are fighting for centuries now...  So if according to you people make mistakes, are we not allowed to find answers? or should we only flowerpowerly looking for the good things while others are suffering from it?

Making nowadays cloudy statements about so-called love doesn't solve the question. And of course people and churches did good things too.
in Neurenberg also the Germans claimed from Verbs 24:12 that only God will judge and not an international court. That's where Luther translated in German ''Ich habe es nicht gewusst''. But let's not forget vers 10 and 11, that it's also your responsibility maybe to change church policy.

Oh please. Document your history better than that. Do you understand how the Nazis treated Catholics? I am a gentile and have studied the holocaust for 26 years. I want you to prove evidence that the Pope at that time was a Nazi sympathizer who willingly approved of Jewish extermination. Prove it - despite the rumors.

I want you to tell me why every person who opposed the Nazis kept their mouth shut and why that was wrong. They died if they spoke. That was a fact. It does not make it right but it was the rule of the law at that time. You better prove it because 6 miillion Jews died and they were the focus of the Nazi agenda but so did 7 million gentiles - more under Stalin.

No one escaped the Nazis in the end. There was no freedom of opinion. I am a Catholic and I am equally nauseated by accusation of all Christians as Nazis as I am by the right wing Christians.

Black and white thinking is just ignorance. I can find examples of hundreds, if not thousands, of righteous Gentiles. Can you?

Knock it off, bigot! You are no different than those you condemn and worse, you are wrong!

My uncle was honored as a Righteous Gentile. He spent 7 years in a camp and his wife died saving a Jewish child from the crossfire of the Nazis. How dare you lump every gentile in a group of hated people by the Jews?

Feed your bigotry for it is an excuse for facing truth. Truth is difficult and it is a gray area. Not black and white.

I grew up around Jews and not gentiles. They never hated me because I was a gentile. They treated me with dignity and respect. Your attitude is disgraceful.

Grow up.

And David, what good are you contributing to the world?

It may be of some comfort to you to know that I grew up during World War 2 during which time my parents here in England took in and treated as there own, two little Jewish girls who had been completely orphaned because their families had been subjected to the most horrific anti-Semitic murderous brutality imaginable. The two girls had been hidden and smuggled out of Poland by none other than a wonderful Polish Roman Catholic family who had risked their lives to save them.

As a grew up with these two Jewish girls they became my adopted sisters and at the age of 14 and 16 respectively they became Christians, accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour; although I myself did not become a Christian until some 40 later.  Later in life two distant Polish Jewish relatives were traced and they were re-united here in England.

Not one of my posts has ever been directed at any individual! My issue has been and will remain soley with doctrinal matters of the Roman Catholic Institution.

David