JFJ Forums - OT and NT

There is no other Book or Collection of Books that is more closely related to the TANAKH other than New Testament, Spiritually... What do you think? Even Talmud contradict with each other acording to versions The Palestinian and The Babylonians.

jewpoet Wrote:

There is no other Book or Collection of Books that is more closely related to the TANAKH other than New Testament, Spiritually... What do you think? Even Talmud contradict with each other acording to versions The Palestinian and The Babylonians.

The NT also gets our brains working, like with the genealogies of Miryam bat-Eli and Yosef ben-Ya'akov. The Talmud takes what should be like pure food and adds hydrogenates (heart-hardening cohanim interpretation); and doesn't see that maybe, for example, Miryam could be related to Shlomo ben-David by someone who married Natan or Eli. As far as I know, we don't get the matrilineal names of Miryam, Eli, or anyone else in the genealogies of the Brit Chadashah, except in the cases where Mattityahu pointed out notable challahim.

jewpoet Wrote:

...Even Talmud contradict with each other acording to versions The Palestinian and The Babylonians.

That's what oral traditions do. Especially oral traditions developed in diverse locations. The principle is commanded by G-d. Like it or lump it.

Deu 17:8-13 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, [being] matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose; And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment: And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee: According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, [to] the right hand, nor [to] the left. And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

G-d provided for a living Torah in the form of an oral tradition. The Mishna presents the differing opinions and rules on the decision to be followed. The Talmud elucidates upon those decisions.

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

The NT also gets our brains working, like with the genealogies of Miryam bat-Eli and Yosef ben-Ya'akov.

To which version of the New Testament do you subscribe? The earliest copies of Luke don't even contain the genealogy. The New Testament, to those who really study it, is nothing but a headache. Origen wrote in the third century (not in English, of course), "The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please." If I were you, I would prefer the version without the genealogy. It would sure make it easier to believe that Jesus is the messiah if he were not disqualified.

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

The Talmud takes what should be like pure food and adds hydrogenates (heart-hardening cohanim interpretation); and doesn't see that maybe, for example, Miryam could be related to Shlomo ben-David by someone who married Natan or Eli. As far as I know, we don't get the matrilineal names of Miryam, Eli, or anyone else in the genealogies of the Brit Chadashah, except in the cases where Mattityahu pointed out notable challahim.

Maternity does not matter. The crown passes paternally. That's why the Torah talks about the seed of David, not the egg of a woman. The promise was tho Adam through Seth, to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to Judah, to Peretz, to David, to Solomon. The scepter was not promised to the line of Nathan. Mary cannot pass what she does not possess.

Hezqi Wrote:

Maternity does not matter. The crown passes paternally. That's why the Torah talks about the seed of David, not the egg of a woman. The promise was tho Adam through Seth, to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to Judah, to Peretz, to David, to Solomon. The scepter was not promised to the line of Nathan. Mary cannot pass what she does not possess.

Talmudim always go back and forth, don't they? They describe Judaism and Deuteronomy 7:3-5 as the writers of Kiddushin interpreted Torah; then they try to invalidate what is actually valid matrilineal Judaism and status as a melekh-Yisra'el. Miryam bat-Eli was descended from Eli, who was descended patrilineally from Natan ben-David. We don't know about the matrilineal side unless the various challahim are identified by name; so Miryam could also be a matrilineal descendant of Shlomo ben-David.

Hezqi Wrote:

jewpoet Wrote:

...Even Talmud contradict with each other acording to versions The Palestinian and The Babylonians.

That's what oral traditions do. Especially oral traditions developed in diverse locations. The principle is commanded by G-d. Like it or lump it.

Deu 17:8-13 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, [being] matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose; And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment: And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee: According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, [to] the right hand, nor [to] the left. And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

G-d provided for a living Torah in the form of an oral tradition. The Mishna presents the differing opinions and rules on the decision to be followed. The Talmud elucidates upon those decisions.

What happened to two or three witnesses to establish a matter? Dean (jewpoet) has a point.

Hezqi Wrote:

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

The NT also gets our brains working, like with the genealogies of Miryam bat-Eli and Yosef ben-Ya'akov.

To which version of the New Testament do you subscribe? The earliest copies of Luke don't even contain the genealogy. The New Testament, to those who really study it, is nothing but a headache. Origen wrote in the third century (not in English, of course), "The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please." If I were you, I would prefer the version without the genealogy. It would sure make it easier to believe that Jesus is the messiah if he were not disqualified.

Tell Sarah and Avraham that; and tell Yisma'el and Hagar that. Look at Yitzchak: Yitzchak wasn't going to come, so they should've had had a son through Hagar. Later, Yisma'el ben-Avraham vi Hagar was exiled with his mother for mocking Yitzchak ben-Avraham. Also, why criticize the whole Tanakh and Brit Chadashah for scribal errors of adom; especially when Talmudim write books like Kiddushin that take Torah parashot like D'vraim 7:3-5 out of the context of whole Tanakh and Brit Chadashah?

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

Hezqi Wrote:

Maternity does not matter. The crown passes paternally. That's why the Torah talks about the seed of David, not the egg of a woman. The promise was tho Adam through Seth, to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to Judah, to Peretz, to David, to Solomon. The scepter was not promised to the line of Nathan. Mary cannot pass what she does not possess.

Talmudim always go back and forth, don't they? They describe Judaism and Deuteronomy 7:3-5 as the writers of Kiddushin interpreted Torah; then they try to invalidate what is actually valid matrilineal Judaism and status as a melekh-Yisra'el. Miryam bat-Eli was descended from Eli, who was descended patrilineally from Natan ben-David. We don't know about the matrilineal side unless the various challahim are identified by name; so Miryam could also be a matrilineal descendant of Shlomo ben-David.

Yeah. But, I don't think she was a man. The scepter cannot pass from her. She cannot pass what she does not possess.

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

Hezqi Wrote:

jewpoet Wrote:

...Even Talmud contradict with each other acording to versions The Palestinian and The Babylonians.

That's what oral traditions do. Especially oral traditions developed in diverse locations. The principle is commanded by G-d. Like it or lump it.

Deu 17:8-13 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, [being] matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose; And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment: And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee: According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, [to] the right hand, nor [to] the left. And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

G-d provided for a living Torah in the form of an oral tradition. The Mishna presents the differing opinions and rules on the decision to be followed. The Talmud elucidates upon those decisions.

What happened to two or three witnesses to establish a matter? Dean (jewpoet) has a point.

Nothing happened to it. What are you talking about?

Diverse locations? Havent you noticed that it says "...and you shall go up into 'the place' which YHWH ELOHIM chooses"- you to settle the matter. Again, "which they of that place which Av YHWH shall choose shall shew thee..."

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