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We learn of G-d's covenant with Abraham in Genesis 15. The process is that There are a heifer, a goat, a ram, a turtledove, and a pigeon that are split in half and bled out. The blood runs down in a trench. This practice is a fairly common practice. It is still practiced in the middle east today. It's called a blood path or a blood covenant. It is always between a greater and lesser party. The greater party sets the terms and then, if the lesser party agrees, they both step into the blood. For example the greater party might say, "I will give you my daughter in marriage. You must be kind to her". Now in this practice, there is a kind of collateral system. They would step down into the blood. That symbol is saying that if I break my promise, you can do this to me. You can kill me. If, in the example above, the young man beat his wife, the father had the right to kill him.

In Genesis 15 there is a blood covenant. G-d promises Abraham kids, land, and indirectly the messiah "Through you all nations will receive a blessing". G-d set the terms of the covenant. All abraham had to do was to follow G-d in all his ways. In other words, be perfect. Beginning in verse 12, Moshe describes a vision Abraham had. It says a smoking fire pot (smoke a symbol for G-d. ie, mount Sinai, pillar of smoke...) and a flaming torch (also a symbol for G-d. ie, pillar of fire, tongues of fire on the apostles...) both passed between the pieces of the animals. This is radical. G-d set the terms for Abraham and said that if Abraham didn't keep his end of the covenant, he could kill G-d.

This means for reconciliation between the seed of Abraham and G-d to take place, G-d had to die. For a covenant was not a promise that could be amended or recanted. Many Christians mistakenly believe that animal sacrifices forgave sins. They didn't. They sacrificed the same animals that Abraham sacrificed to say that they longed for G-d to keep his promise and fulfill the covenant that he made with Abraham. The sacrifices were a way to show that they wanted G-d to keep his end of the deal. In this way, Yeshua came to reconcile all the lost back to Adonai. Yeshua was the sacrifice that forgave sin. Yeshau had to be G-d.
Also the skins for Adam & Eve typify this same reasoning for blood atonement. I think this is a great post. Yahweh can swear by no greater.
Glory to God.

Shalom and Thanks
G-d is the Messiah, but the Messiah is not God.


1 can be a part of 10 but 10 cannot be a part of 1.
primogenit Wrote:

G-d is the Messiah, but the Messiah is not God.


1 can be a part of 10 but 10 cannot be a part of 1.


So, if Arrowu equals Arrowd, but Arrowd doesn't equal Arrowu; then why does Arrowd equal Arrowd, or Arrowu equal Arrowu?
Bryann90 Wrote:

This is radical. G-d set the terms for Abraham and said that if Abraham didn't keep his end of the covenant, he could kill G-d.
That may be radical, but it isn't in Gen 15 or 16.  I didn't see anything about G-d telling Abraham that he could kill G-d (as if that were even possible).  
God cannot die - (Ps. 90:2; 1 Tim. 6:16).
Quote:
Yeshau had to be G-d.

Why?  So the Messiah would fit into your theory?  

In addition to the fact that G-d can't die and Yeshua did:  

G-d cannot be tempted (James 1:13), Yeshua "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb. 4:15).  

G-d cannot be seen by men (1 Tim. 6:16; Ex. 33:20). Men saw Yeshua and handled him (1 John 1:1 emphasizes this).
GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

primogenit Wrote:

G-d is the Messiah, but the Messiah is not God.


1 can be a part of 10 but 10 cannot be a part of 1.


So, if Arrowu equals Arrowd, but Arrowd doesn't equal Arrowu; then why does Arrowd equal Arrowd, or Arrowu equal Arrowu?



God is Jesus but Jesus is not God.

The same way God is within me but I'm not God.


Chatzkel Wrote:

Bryann90 Wrote:

This is radical. G-d set the terms for Abraham and said that if Abraham didn't keep his end of the covenant, he could kill G-d.
That may be radical, but it isn't in Gen 15 or 16.  I didn't see anything about G-d telling Abraham that he could kill G-d (as if that were even possible).  
God cannot die - (Ps. 90:2; 1 Tim. 6:16).
Quote:
Yeshau had to be G-d.

Why?  So the Messiah would fit into your theory?  

In addition to the fact that G-d can't die and Yeshua did:  

G-d cannot be tempted (James 1:13), Yeshua "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb. 4:15).  

G-d cannot be seen by men (1 Tim. 6:16; Ex. 33:20). Men saw Yeshua and handled him (1 John 1:1 emphasizes this).


But G-d as Ruach-HaKodesh couldn't die; and that's why Y'shua-HaNotzri-V'melekh-HaYehudim had to be Ben-Adam.
The reason you didn't see it in Genesis 15 is because you don't get the culture. My post was about relating what Abraham and G-d did to what a blood covenant meant. Because we are westerners living in the 21st century, we don't get the picture. We just see a promise made by G-d to Abraham. By not putting it back in it's original context, we miss the point. By entering the blood twice G-d said (not with words, but with a picture, which is the very Hebraic way to do it) that he would walk the blood path for Abraham.

As for the "No man has ever seen God" what do you do with the texts in the TaNaKh that talk about Yakov wrestling with Adonai? What do you do with the physical manifestations of God that are strewn throughout the TaNaKh? I agree that no man has ever seen YHWH, but Men have definitely seen Elohim in some form. My answer: Yeshua, God made flesh.
primogenit Wrote:

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

primogenit Wrote:

G-d is the Messiah, but the Messiah is not God.


1 can be a part of 10 but 10 cannot be a part of 1.


So, if Arrowu equals Arrowd, but Arrowd doesn't equal Arrowu; then why does Arrowd equal Arrowd, or Arrowu equal Arrowu?



God is Jesus but Jesus is not God.

The same way God is within me but I'm not God.


Have you thought about studying the Brit Chadashah instead of the Qur'an?
Chatzkel Wrote:


Why?  So the Messiah would fit into your theory?  

In addition to the fact that G-d can't die and Yeshua did: 

the flesh died in our stead 

G-d cannot be tempted (James 1:13), Yeshua "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb. 4:15).  

Yeshua the man was tempted as we are but God was in Him as He is in us today and Jesus had free choice as we do to follow the leading of God in Him or ignore it and give in to temptation....he withstood the temptation and listened to God in Him  

G-d cannot be seen by men (1 Tim. 6:16; Ex. 33:20). Men saw Yeshua and handled him (1 John 1:1 emphasizes this).

Yeshua was G-d incanate...they handled the man and by handling the man and touching him and being touched by Him touched G-d Himself

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