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Good Morning And Shalom Be

I have a Question that is bugging me
In the book of The Acts in Chapter 14 & 15 there is a conflict between
Paul, And some of The Believing Pharisees over whether or not Gentile Believers Should be Torah observant Acts 15v 5
It was a fact that “some” had gone out from the early “Church” telling The Gentile Believers that they should be circumcised and keep the law
The Council response is swift
Acts 15 v 24 ( Jews writing to the gentiles in Antioch , Syria and Cilicia )
Since we have heard that some who went out from among us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls saying “You must be circumcised and keep The Law “----To Whom We gave no such Commandment.
Obviously these “law men” were operating outside and without the Authority of the Council

This subject of Torah Observancy comes up several times in the New Testament
Now my Question is this considering these things spoken by the council why is it that there are some among us (both the Jew and Gentile believers) who teach Torah Observancy ( like Kosher Diets and so forth) despite the councils Decree and that we are no longer required to do “The Law”
Since Jesus Abolished in His Flesh The Enmity, That is, The Law of Commandments contained in Ordinances Ephesians 2:15
Also I read that Peter Faced the Same Conflict in his own Walk Prior to the Jerusalem council’s Decree
When he was in Joppa and had “The Vision” of the sheet with four corners
Act 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Act 11:6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
Act 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
Act 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

If “The Law” was still in effect then these creatures would still be unlawful for consumption, since the Law was abolished in His Flesh then these creatures have been made Clean And Fit to Eat
However I am also Aware that Scripture says to Abstain from foods offered to Idols Acts 15 v 29
Also I am aware of what Paul Writ to the Romans concerning foods
Romans 14 v 14-16
“I know and am Convinced by The Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ Died
Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil
From this I would say that if I were out with a Jewish Believer and I ate something that grieved him like Kebab then I would abstain from that particular food for his sake, (for Example I wont eat fat or anything made from blood like Pigs pud yuk!!! so id appreciate it if no-one offered it to me or meat that still has traces of blood in it specially when it has not been cooked properly ) this behaviour is ok cos then I would be acting with love and understanding for the sake of unity; but if one were to do it in order to have some sense of his own “righteous work” or in order to be seen of men and gain there ear then he’s acting reproachfully towards the work Of Christ’s Death and Resurrection


MARTIN (SQUADDIE'S 'R' US

I recently learned that male pigs are not at all edible. No one eats them because they taste really bad.

As an MK in South America, we, as a general rule, would not eat anything that ate meat. So even if you can eat everything, you may not want to.

I believe that putting blood into the ground is something that everyone should be doing. As far as I know, almost no one does that.

If we keep the Law, it should be as a testimony of your faith in Y'shua.

Shalom!

Actually, when you read Acts 15 in CONTEXT you see very clearly that it does not condemn Torah observance, but rather confirms it. The context is talking about Torah observance for Salvation. Which by the way could never be done. and I might add, to say that Yeshua had abolished Torah is to preach that Yeshua is not the Messiah. Yeshua Fulfilled the Torah and the Prophets (the greek for fulfilled is execute, carry out, to carry into effect). Ephesians 2:15 is talking about him abolishing the enmity between Jews and Gentiles (which is very clear from context). Dont forget, these were first Century Torah observant Jews that were writing. NOT American Pastors that thought the thoughts of the Greeks. Baruch HaShem Adonai Yeshua.

Hey bro, but on the same note wouldn't it be a testimony of our faith if we trust God's decision to revoke some of the old laws? (I'm not disagreeing with you, just asking a question.)

Act 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Y'shua/Jesus said that whenever you do this (keep the Passover) do this in rememberance of Me.

Yes we should proclaim every way that we can that we believe in Y'shua/Jesus. Jews still have a conscience that they have to keep clean. They were told to keep the Law forever. It is kind of like a caterpillar that turns into a butterfly. The Law (of gravity) did not change. The gifts and abilities of the creature did change. Some of the Law is like the old shell while other parts clearly remain. The caterpillar was not allowed to fly only because he did not have wings. The Law is forever because the Law always spoke of the provision of Messiah (Y'shua). May parts of the Law do not hurt to practice because they speak of Messiah. Of course the Law cannot be kept without the Temple. There are a lot of issues. We cannot lose sight of the fact that our salvation has alway been through the provision of Messiah (that we now know is Y'shua/Jesus) but it was always by faith and it is still by faith.

I hope that does not confuse you further.

Shalom!

Hey Warrior have you ever studied greek language ?
The Word "Fulfilled" in the greek means to "make complete" adj "bring to completion, bring to an end"
and since it was God telling peter (a torah observant Jew) peter "slay and eat"  so who's wrong, peter writing under the influence of The Holy Spirit i think not and how about God for telling him to slay and eat  surely that cannot be for God would then be guilty of tempting Peter to Break "The Law") (commit sin )that is if the Law was still in effect and your comments regarding Torah observance necassery for salvation what ever Happened to "Believe (to have Faith to trust in, to place confidence in,) on The Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall Be Saved" try reading acts 15 v 5-12 the subject referred to Torah Observance in order for Salvation read v 10-11
ive been reading and studying The Bible for 10 years im not that Gullible mate  

oh and im not an american im English....... thank you

Yes, I said the same thing. Torah observence is not about salvation. And yes I have looked up the greek for fulfilled. And it happen to have mean to fill up. I would read that story of God telling him to arise and eat. He was getting Kepha ready to go and speak to the Gentiles (exiles of the house of Israel). Read the interpretation of the Dream. Yah will show you. Torah has always been forever. And has always been there for Israel to keep.

Let me share with you on something I have studied up on the food thing.

1Ti 4:1  But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2  speaking lies in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
1Ti 4:3  forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creation of God is good, and nothing to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified through the Word of God and prayer.  (MKJV)

Verse 3 has something interesting in it. Go look at the word meats in the Greek. The word is Broma

âñù͂ìá
brōma
bro'-mah
From the base of G977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonial) articles allowed or forbiden by the Jewish law: - meat, victuals.

Holy cow this is talking about food allowed or forbiddn by Levitical law. In this case since men are forbiddings it. He is talking about food allowed by Torah. now I will post the corrct usage.

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats which are allowed by Levitical law, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

These meats are sanctified by the Word of God and prayer. There was no New testament when Paul wrote this. So what does he mean Sanctified by the Word of God? Well what every Jew means when they say Word of God. They are speaking of the TaNaKH (Torah, Prophets, and the Writings) (what we call the Old Testament.

Is Pork and lobsters sanctified by the Torah? NO. Boy, the Greek and History really speaks out against what I have been taught it church for years. The Truth is always better then lies and dogmas of men. But sometimes, yes, it hurts to know that I have been lied to.

hello all,



Luke 16:16 (KJV)  
    The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


the law was until john (the baptist)


as far as salvation, we must be born again, jesus says;


John 3:3 (KJV)  
    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:5 (KJV)  
    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2:38 (KJV)  
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


the result of that is this;


Titus 3:5 (KJV)  
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


why in jesus name;

Acts 4:12 (KJV)  
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Col. 3:17 (KJV)  
    And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


Matthew 1:21 (KJV)  
    And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


oh yes one more thing;

i am neither jew nor gentile i am a born again christian , baptised in jesus name and filled with the holyghost, speaking in tongues as the spirit gave utterence, happened 23 years ago and i use to call these people crazy, but i love jesus and he`s in me...


Acts 20:28 (KJV)  
    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (


1 Cor. 10:32 (KJV)  
    Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:


thats what i am, the church of god, the church that is not made by hands but by his spirit. we are the temple of the holyspirit..



                            god bless all.......

p.s   this is for the one that keeps promoting his website,

Romans 11:25 (KJV)  
    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


the rapture is soon to happen, one must be born again to go in the rapture... another hint,  the scripture says and the dead in christ will rise first  , that doesnt include the old testement saints, isnt gods word exciting..   only those in christ jesus...(new test) oh! thier going, just at a differnt time  there are several different times, the tribulation saints is another, the milliniuim saints.

again god bless, just trying to stir the mind

This list is in prophesy of the Catholic religion. They make up their own rules, (or their pope does), change the rules as they so choose, priests must remain celibate, and were for a long time (one of those rules they changed) forbidden to eat meat on Fridays. Verse 4 clears it all up pretty well. . .for every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. When G*d says every, He means every. Amen.

I think you have hit it, W of Y.  

G-d's covenant with the Jews did not disappear.  The issue was whether or not the new gentile believers would be required to observe all the laws.  

Peter was having trouble even sitting down, eating with these people.  That was what the vision was about.  How they should be brought in.  Not that he should eat treyf.  As far as being Torah observant, we gentiles should observe the 7 Noahide commandments.  I tremble at the thought of being repsonsible for 613.