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Again, neither of these says you must be baptized to be saved.  It's just not there man.

If a professor says, "if you ace all my exams you'll definitly pass my class", does that mean in order to pass the class you have to ace all your exams?  Of course not.

Do you understand now how Mark 16:16 doesn't make the case that baptism is mandatory to enter heaven?  Ditto for 1Peter 3:21.  Neither says you have to be baptized in order to be saved.  We shouldn't be surprised, because if they did Scripture wouldn't be innerrant (since other places Scriptures says you are saved if you believe - no mention of baptism).

Mark 16:16 is covered by my post on logic.  To repeat, if you have some verses that say that if you believe (have faith) you are saved and others that say if you believe and are baptized you are saved, the inescapable logical conclusion is that belief is the only mandatory requirement for salvation.  And this is consistent with Yeshua's testimony that the thief who repented and believed (yet was not baptized) would see Him in paradise.

Now on 1Peter 3:21 the construction is a bit different.  It says if you are baptized, you are saved.  It doesn't declare a causal connection, but it says if you are baptized you are saved, e.g. if you are a man, you must be made in the image of G-d, but being made in the image of G- d doesn't make you a man - you could be a woman.  Also, I think even you'll admit being baptized by the right procedure, but not really having faith doesn't result in salvation - right?  So again your argument is invalid.  So what is the true meaning of the passage?  What is it really teaching about baptism?

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward G-d,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It's teaching that not the putting away the filth of the flesh (by water of our baptism) saves us, but that a good conscience toward G-d (that leads us to be baptized) does.  Right?  Isn't this the spiritual truth being taught to us by Peter?

Blessings in Messiah (Christ)!

Something else to keep in mind is the many different uses of the term salvation in Scripture.  SMR has noted how often in the Tanakh salvation is used to describe temporal salvation from harm (either from deserved or undeserved harm).  The term is also used of other consequences of sin: salvation from hell, sanctification (salvation from a sinful life) and glorification (a new uncursed body and completely sin free mind).  This explains its use as a past event (have been saved), current event (being saved or work out your salvation) and a future event (will be saved).  You have to be careful to check the context.  If you do, you'll see what I'm saying.

Blessings in Maschiac!

These are the very last things I will say to you on this forum:

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? [there is] more hope of a fool than of him."

"A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back."

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]."
-emphasis mine-

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

The LORD rebukes you.

GET SAVED!

Just for the record, I have no idea what this means.

My testimony is in the testimony section. You cannot insult me. I stood naked/completely EXPOSED before the Holy YHWH of Israel. I know EXACTLY who I was, and who I am now in YESHUAH HaMashiach.

Tiny pebbles being cast at me by a mere man is nothing to me; I stand on the Rock.

~I will now let my friends and brethren contend with you.~

As long as it is not sugarman I am very pleased with your decision.

I can't believe you guys have spent 10 pages arguing with this ignoramus.

oy vey!

Even before reading your posts your claim of Apostleship already rang alarm bells… and they proved to be true.

I suggest we rename this thread to “Saved according to Wilby and his interpretations!”.

Unitarians really mess up as they go along and become very legalistic.
Whats next... enforcing who can and who can't take communion? Is that your second favorite doctrine?

I have a question for you Wilby… in your local Apostolic Church how many people come to Christ each year? I think even the JW cult that recruit through doctrine would match your numbers? Discern the spiritual fruit?

The letter does not save but G-ds power! Its not the baptism of water but the work of the Spirit!

Brother most (if not all) who confess Y'shua on this site are baptized so maybe you could be more efficient with your time? We are all baptized but we interpret that doctrine differently. Lets move on for your lack of Jewish context on the subject does not bring value...

Php 1:18  But so what? All that matters is that in every way, whether honestly or in pretense, the Messiah is being proclaimed; and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,

Blessed be the Name of Y'shua HaMashiach

As long as it is not sugarman I am very pleased with your decision.


Guess my questions are too challenging to answer for willby

willby i also think it not too safe to build baptism saves on mark 16:16 when this verse is not in the oldest scripts of greek scripture we have.