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wilby its very simple believe and be baptism.



First off its the believing on Christ that saves t hey confess with there mouth.

that what saves Then they are told to be baptism to show the figurative of

belief on Christ.


it is by confessing with your mouth one is saved and its by baptism One shows figurative of this confessing.

Surgarman

You missed the boat! Or you WILL miss the boat if you continue this way.

Your are a repeater your not a reader which means you have a hard time comprehending.

You are in need of teaching, you are not a teacher.

Seriously, go talk with your parents about things of God. Remember if you lie about truth and misquote scripture that causes someone to fall you will be accountable. Think before you speak.

Ask yourself, are you repeating a man made doctrine or are you rightly dividing the word of God.

Where is your loyalty, to man or to God - Elohim?

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

To All
Do not leave this thread without first taking a serious look at what I have written about salvation. I will not repeat myself nor will I return often.

In Jesus Christ - Yahushuah Messiah - He is All in All

Amen


P.S. Surgarman, I know you will but really, no response is required.

No response by you is necessary either, Wil.

Ask yourself, are you repeating a man made doctrine or are you rightly dividing the word of God.



willby your the one with MAN DOCTRINE.


You are Changing what baptism represents to what saves!



there is a BIG different s between the TWO.



You believe baptism saves- man doctrine.


I believe baptism represents what saves us= apostles doctrine.



wilby choose this day who you will serve!

Seriously, go talk with your parents about things of God. Remember if you lie about truth and misquote scripture that causes someone to fall you will be accountable. Think before you speak.



I never misquote scripture infact I copy and paste from biblegateway  as it shows the scripture.


But you on the other hand like to add wordings to scripture that are not there.

Plus your not a very  good teacher.


You need to go back to school.


You do not even know the definitions between Literal and figurative  

1 Peter 3:21 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:



Dont know about you but take a look at this



antitupon an-teet'-oo-pon  neuter of a compound of 473 and 5179; corresponding ("antitype"), i.e. a representative, counterpart:--(like) figure (whereunto).


This is the greek wording for figure that is being used in peter 3:21


have a fun time trying to get anything that says baptism saves literal out of it.

Isn’t “Sola-Scriptura” wonderful??? The Holy Spirit appears to be guiding Wilby as he interprets scripture into believing that baptism is regenerative and that same Holy Spirit appears to be telling the Evangelicals that it is just symbolic.

The early Christians were UNANIMOUS in there belief that baptism was regenerative.  Read all about it here:  www.earlychristianwritings.com.  I challenge anyone here to find pre-Reformation evidence of a “symbolic only” understanding of baptism.  For each source you find (if you can find any), I’ll find 10 others who believed it was regenerative.

Wilby -  You are in good company.  I’ve taken a quick glance through your posts and see that your understanding of baptism appears to be in agreement with the unanimous consent of the early Church Fathers.  All orthodox Christians believe, as did the early church, that baptism is regenerative.  Most mainstream Christian denominations do too.

I haven’t gone through each post in detail but would like to make a couple points.  Sugarman likes to claim he understands Greek but he clearly doesn’t.  He typically will refer you to a link that appears to be from a fundamentalist Baptist church.  Also, every single instance in scripture of baptism and it’s derivatives uses the Greek word “baptizo”.  If you look in Stroms concordance you will see this and you will also see that it is defined as a ritual of immersion in water.  So if a person is “baptized in the spirit”, if it doesn’t involve water, it appears to be adding something to scripture.  This is a clear “no no” for Sola-Scripturists.

“Sola-Fide” is another invention of the Reformation.  When taken to it’s extreme, one must reject baptism as necessary for salvation because it becomes an act of obedience to God (i.e. a “work”) and therefore contradicts “Sola-Fide”.  Faith and baptism are clearly commanded from scripture.  I must point out that since this is a Messianic JEWISH website, we should consider the Jewishness of “both/and” thought rather than “either/or”.  When taken as a whole, scripture clearly commands baptism.  This is what scripture says, this is what the Apostles handed down to the early church, and this is what 2000 years of our Christian faith has upheld.

By the way “Third Day” – your argument is based on a false assumption.  NOWHERE in scripture does it say we are saved by faith ALONE.  This is another invention of the Reformation!

Wilby, none of the young people here need to go consult their parents in order to post here.  Further, all good kids of whatever age do consult their folks anyway from time to time, if they happily still have them around.  Christ treated the young (and the women) with respect, though His knowledge and goodness was infinite.  He loved them.  You also indict yourself here.

Elohim references the triune God.

Where in Hebrews 2, or anywhere in Hebrews, do you find water baptism to be the catalyst for salvation?

It is okay if you do not wish to come here as often; some of us visit and post frequently or infrequently as we can.  We do not take it personally either way.

Two places where the KJV phrases all in all, it is referencing the triune God, not modalistically, but the persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  But looking further, you do see this (Paul speaking to the church about the church):

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

McGee:  "Christ is the catalyst who brings together individuals and groups who are separate and makes them one in Him.  A catalyst is a substance that is placed with elements that are opposed to each other and brings them together into a new compound.  This is exactly what Christ does.  We have all been made one in Him!"  How does that take place?

Ephesians 2:7-9  7 That in the ages to come he [the Father] might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus [the Son].  8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Only God can raise the dead.  We cannot, by an act of our own will (water baptism), provide God the means by which He can raise us from being dead in trespasses and sins to being alive unto God through Christ Jesus.