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i suggest you read this.



This had change some of mine beliefs.




http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/baptism.htm#IC2d

Yes, it is, when not corrupted by picking and choosing verses and taking in the full council of God. Oh, and not adding to what is written. Like Jesus railed against when He walked here: men and Oral Tradition.

And THAT is the problem with looking to others (men, priests, angels) for guidance at the expense of the word of God. That's the origination of sin in the first place; not sticking EXACTLY what God said. That God warned us about in the NT.

wk says baptism is essential... and wilby says even that is not enough, one must be baptized in the name of Jesus only, and not sprinkled, but immersed.

I take you both back to John 3:16 and Eph. 2:8,9.

We must reconcile scripture, not corrupt it.

Since we are making OT parallels: Nowhere in the OT does water atone. NOWHERE.

The only thing that atones for our sin is Jesus' BLOOD on the cross. PERIOD.

Wilby~



wk knows alot about early church history, particularly Catholic, but I am not interested in what 1st/2nd century Christians did (and they weren't in agreement in many things either, with each ecumenical council we see congregations dividing from what we now call the RCC). I am interested in what first Christians did; the ones who were direct apostles of Jesus, and what Jesus Himself said.

Everything we need to know was given to us in the instruction manual straight from the Designer; from Genesis to Revelation. If we can't find it there, then what men say is of no use. God's word is our measuring rod, not popular opinion or powerful "encouragement" of a political/military nature.

wk and I disagree on many things, and some fervently, but I do consider him a brother (not that he needs my endorsement, but just so YOU, wilby, know how I view him).

You, I do not consider a brother. You preach a "different Jesus" to begin with, and "another gospel" on top of it. And where do I get that notion? Scripture.

[/quote]


willby alot of false doctrines came in the baby years of the church and this is one of them.



I will not say because people believe this and that they are not saved.


true believers Can be trick and God will deal with us in his time.



I wonder if you look at that site.


I thought peter was talking about water baptism.


But look it says


1 Peter 3:21


21also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,


Now the question is which baptism?


peter making it clear that this baptism does not clean from sin.



[/quote]


I shoudl be  more clear on what i said.



from this site


on peter 3:20-21


So the baptism of verse 21 is one which is NOT characterized by a washing away of one's filth and therefore it is NOT by an effort on one's own part of doing away with one's own sins. It is not associated with an individual attempting to do something in order to be righteous. The baptism being described, Peter says, has nothing to do with leading a righteous life. Peter states that the baptism which saves unto eternal life is the one which is the response of a GOOD CONSCIENCE toward God.



and for the rest on peter 3:20-21


http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/1pet3.htm


beware this site is for deep readers


that water baptism it self

Again  Ripley and Surgarman you both speak equally against true salvation in support of your pastors or even in support of this web site. You both have very little understanding and comprension of scripture yet you both have something to say about all things. Who is motivating you? I speak the truth and you speak against the truth therefore you are not being influenced by the Holy Ghost...so what spirit is motivating you?
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Jesus did not baptise anyone--I am surprised Ripley that you have not used this to support your beliefs. BUT Jesus like Paul stood back and overseen that baptism was done correctly. You see people in the church were starting to boast about being baptized by Paul as some where baptized by others...he was dealing with church issues. Jesus came to teach and Paul came to teach and they both taught baptism and the cross.
___________

The ads you speak of are from the free message board of which I have NOTHING to do with. If I pay for their service they will remove the ads and I am not ready to do that as the board is not being used right now--but if it does get a lot of use I will pay for my own private board. --happy now!
____________

Father, Son & Holy Ghost is what Jesus is---it is not his name.
____________
Maybe you would understand pictures better:

Father Son and Holy Ghost
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=D9zAlGO3_Rw

Grace, Faith and Works
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i96TPLKgq8...re=related

You will see that I am not alone and this is not new, it is the original and proper way. Stop defending your beliefs and search for truth, I know it hurts your feelings but eternal fire hurts more.

Truth About Salvation Part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ym0kYc1YV...re=related

Truth About Salvation Part 2
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HXi4yr4xh9...re=related

Remember that ALL believers, that is true believers were all baptized into Jesus (YahuShuah)--are YOU a believer? or are you non believer?

Follow Jesus through death burial and resurrection by baptism.
Romans 6

Salvation awaits you.

Again  Ripley and Surgarman you both speak equally against true salvation in support of your pastors or even in support of this web site. You both have very little understanding and comprension of scripture yet you both have something to say about all things. Who is motivating you? I speak the truth and you speak against the truth therefore you are not being influenced by the Holy Ghost...so what spirit is motivating you?



wilby   You not speaking the truth  One salvation is not done by anything we can do or add.


I suggest you read this to understand the baptism in  peter 3:20-21


http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/1pet3.htm



You are adding to God word Nothing we can do can get our salvation.



Jesus did not baptise anyone--I am surprised Ripley that you have not used this to support your beliefs. BUT Jesus like Paul stood back and overseen that baptism was done correctly. You see people in the church were starting to boast about being baptized by Paul as some where baptized by others...he was dealing with church issues. Jesus came to teach and Paul came to teach and they both taught baptism and the cross.



You still are confuse.    The apsotles ask them do you believe why because this depends on there salvation 1 eph 1:13 it is because of there belief that they are saved and baptism because when you believe you are sealed with the holy spirit.  They baptism them because They were BELIEVERS after they confessing romans  10-9-10.


Father, Son & Holy Ghost is what Jesus is---it is not his name.
____________
Maybe you would understand pictures better:

Father Son and Holy Ghost
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=D9zAlGO3_Rw

Grace, Faith and Works
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i96TPLKgq8...re=related

You will see that I am not alone and this is not new, it is the original and proper way. Stop defending your beliefs and search for truth, I know it hurts your feelings but eternal fire hurts more.

Truth About Salvation Part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ym0kYc1YV...re=related

Truth About Salvation Part 2
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HXi4yr4xh9...re=related

Remember that ALL believers, that is true believers were all baptized into Jesus (YahuShuah)--are YOU a believer? or are you non believer?

Follow Jesus through death burial and resurrection by baptism.
Romans 6

Salvation awaits you.



i suggest you read this wilby

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/1pet3.htm


i also suggest you read this to get the correct understanding of The truine God.


The belief of the trinty dates over 3000 years old and here is the evidence.


http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-onen...-echad.htm


When it comes to oneness they have a very surface understanding The essence of God.


i suggest you read the hebrew and greek for you self and look at the evidence and stop going by man teaching.

Remember that ALL believers, that is true believers were all baptized into Jesus (YahuShuah)--are YOU a believer? or are you non believer?

Follow Jesus through death burial and resurrection by baptism.
Romans 6

Salvation awaits you.


willby Have you ever heard The shema of the jews?


No maybe you should look at deut 6:4 echad is being used her.


Echad also means untity.


Result of search for "echad":

259 'echad ekh-awd' a numeral from 258; properly, united, i.e. one; or (as an ordinal) first:--a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together,


you should also note this


This is most troubling for Anti-Trinitarians since the word yachid, the main Hebrew word for solitary oneness, is never used in reference to God


http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-onen...-echad.htm

Wilby~

Hurt feelings?? -LOL- Not hardly.

I am sad for you though. And sad for those you mislead. Sincerely.

Being saved means knowing the truth and believing Him. The simple truth as stated in the Psalms and numerous other passages: Salvation* is from the LORD. It is the gift of God, by grace through faith and not works. You did nothing to earn it. You can do nothing to keep it. All you did was recieve it, and you did that through a faith that God gave you through Jesus (Y'shua). God and He alone, is able to keep it for you.
                              ( 2 Timothy 1:12 )

DH


PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD>