JFJ Forums

[quote=Ripley's]
According to scripture, it's REAL SIMPLE.

ONE STEP: believe.

All the rest flows FROM that, but a person is ALREADY SAVED before they do those works.

YOU are trying to impose a "new law" on us, and I for one, won't stand for it.

You teach a self-righteousness that comes from your works. (Filthy rags.)

We have HIS righteousness from HIS grace.

I think I will trust the Perfect righteousness, as God prescribed, all through scripture.

wilby, we are here for conversations and debates. You are here to preach to us. Thank you very much but I HAVE A PASTOR!

I also already have a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. His name is Jesus... you should meet Him sometime.


[/quote


i agree he adding his own views to the scriptures.



he said we receive the holy ghost when we are baptism but there is not one verse that says this clear but I can find many many many versessaying in clear words when ye believe you were sealed with the holy spirit.



willby forgets its the mouth that confess unto salvation The MOUTH not baptism.


romans 10:9-10.




that why when we see the apostles saying do you believe unto Jesus?


if Yes then are saved NOW do to its the mouth that confess unto salvation .


after that confessing unto salvation they get baptism.

-emphasis mine-

Being baptized in the blood of Messiah (or do I also have to use the word "Christ"??), having THE Great Mohel (which initially was the father of the child; ie: Abraham) circumcize our hearts.

Water baptism comes from our newborn heart. It's a result of it, in obedience as a proclamation (of our "new man" rising) in front of witnesses... it is not the root of our salvation.

BTW~ I have been to your site. No need to cut and paste everything from there onto this forum. A simple link is good enough. (For those that haven't been there.)

PS~ Just stick with "Jesus"... don't type "Jeshua" please. Jesus is fine and acceptable to all.

and



Here's the rock that His church would be built on, let's look at teh conversation:
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Matt. 16:16, 17

"Son of"- "of" is possessive in any language, GK and Hebrew. One cannot possess themself.

"my Father which is in heaven"- "my" is possessive. Jesus says HIS Father is in Heaven. Yet, Jesus is standing in front of talking to the disciples.

And by the way, the question He asked IS FUNDAMENTAL: "Who do YOU say that I am?"

Why did He say Peter was EXACTLY CORRECT? Why didn't He correct Peter and say, "Well, Simon, you're ALMOST THERE.... I am the Father."

Jesus uses the possessive all over scripture: MY FATHER. Not always THE FATHER. If He always used THE FATHER, I could make a case for Oneness. But He doesn't.

And, you are not consistent in your doctrine. One one hand you say that the Son is created, "a long time ago", then on the other hand He is the Father: uncreated, the Creator.

Which is is wilby? Stick with one and try to prove your thesis.

I think you can't decide because there are scriptures that teach He is separate and distinct from the Father, AND they teach that He is eternal YHWH.

Where do you think we get the doctrine (understanding/conclusion) of the triune YHWH from? Scripture teaches it.

One example that Oneness can't explain away without being ridiculous with language:
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt. 3:16, 17

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That is right, well done! They get baptized into Jesus after they confess and believe. So I am getting through to you! You just don't realize it yet.

I know you don't speak for all so don't think you do.

You are fighting truth! You are not fighting me. The words that I say are from scripture, all the scripture, not just parts of it.

Believing is the first step that leads directly to baptism in Jesus name. If you do not get baptized then you do not believe and you will not be saved

This is not a game, this is eternity, I am trying to give you a message and your are not hearing the message.

Baptise in the name of Jesus.

The Name of the Father is -
YHVH (or YAHU) the Eternal

The Name of the Son is -
YHVH (or YAHU) the Saviour

The Name of the Holy Spirit is -.
YHVH (or YAHU) the Spirit.

Jesus is the name of Father the Son and the Christ.

sugarman~



And even that confession of the mouth is FROM the faith that already exists in our hearts. And the faith is what saves. The confession is ANOTHER evidence of our salvation, not the cause of it. (I think you agree, but just want to clarify.)

wilby~



I beg to differ with you.

What of Ephesians 2:8,9?

How do those verses fit with your view of salvation by baptism, and that in Jesus' name ONLY? (Not "just" a work, but a "work done exactly like this or it is ineffectual"...according to you, and in contradiction to Jesus' OWN WORDS: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost")

Also, address the scripture that I just referenced in this thread: the baptism of Jesus.

One must reconcile ALL scripture. "ALL scripture is God-breathed."

Jeshuah?  Why are you still intentionally mispelling/mispronouncing Yeshua's name?  Call Him Jesus if you'd like - that's fine, but don't act as if Jeshuah is His real name.  There is no "J" sound in Hebrew!

Where do you find that Jesus is the name of the Father in Scripture?

You have several other errors in your posts at J4J (on Baptism, works righteousness, unitarianism, etc), but as with the "J", you've ignored these corrections in the past too.

"An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken or ceases to be honest."   - Jewish Proverb


Blessings in Yeshua haMaschiac, Jesus the Messiah, Immanuel, The Way, The Truth, The Life, ...

read my post again   i was saying The mouth confess unto salvation and that why the apostles ask do you believe upond Jesus?



If yes then they are saved right there because its the mouth that confess unto salvation and baptism is an action that comes after salvation.

And even that confession of the mouth is FROM the faith that already exists in our hearts. And the faith is what saves. The confession is ANOTHER evidence of our salvation, not the cause of it. (I think you agree, but just want to clarify.)




true but also confession is very imporant a true believer will always confess  to God in words or in silent prayer.

Actually he doesn't....as for where do we find that jesus is the name of the Father....its been posted in other threads...you know the one where he says "I come in my Father's Name"...ring a bell....
how about "If you had known the me you would have known the Father and now see him"
  "I and m Father are one" and the same(my add for clarity)

I am in the Father and the Father is in me"...
The Father(Jesus is in me Holy Ghost) as the scripture says:

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].
  
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

as I said ...I am in Christ and Christ is in me....just as Jesus said the Father is in me and I am in the Father....Holy GHost(Father)was in Jesus and Jesus put on the Father" Spirit just as He commands us to put on Him.