JFJ Forums

Please do tell me about Jesus--seriously, if you have more info then me I would be pleased to hear about it. Unlike many, I do appreciate more truth.

Yes, I know, and I am tired of mincing words with you Wilby, you false prophet, from a false prophet. You unlearned man. You stiffnecked and willfully disobedient man. You profess a changing modalist god AND pantheism at the same time, a different Jesus, another gospel.

You did not come here to learn, or even to debate. You came here to "teach us all" and didn't even know that "J" isn't in the Hebrew-to-English language transliterations, much less the roots of words, or thoughts, or doctrines that come from Judaism. And even when shown, being the ignorant and stubborn man you are, go with some weird rendering of Y'shua that you found on an obscure website.

One would think that since you were corrected in the very basic of things you might listen, and search scripture, for the deeper things....but no.

You aren't past milk but ready to force a false meat on us!

We have been patient; we have given you scripture. Yet, you deny it all.

You have hardened your heart toward the things of God and choose instead to follow the path of a man.

So be it.

ANATHEMA!

Your teaching is from hell as it is direct conflict with that which the Apostles gave us in writings known as scriptures. And this is what Paul said about that:

Gal 1:8,9-- "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

ACCEPT THE SALVATION OF THE LORD, WHICH IS NOT BAPTISM, BUT FAITH IN THE PROVISION GOD PROVIDED: HIS LAMB.

John 3:16 (once again, so simple, yet so hard for willful men to accept): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Yetzirah~



No, you are correct about that.

But Yeshua it IS the fulfillment of the prophecies that go all the way back to Gen 3:15, in the Garden; the first sacrifice for covering of nakedness/atonement and the first mention of Messiah: "the seed of the woman". Through the Covenants of Abraham and Moses, the feasts, the Temple purpose and implements, through all the prophets, and even in the Psalms and Song of Songs.

To quote Job: "For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth: And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me." KJV

or, Complete Jewish Bible translation: "But I know that my Redeemer lives, and in the end he will rise on the dust; so that after my skin has been thus destroyed, then even without my flesh, I will see God. I will see him for myself, my eyes, not someone else's, will behold him. My heart grows weak within me!"

But I really like the NASB rendition of v 25: ""As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth."
-emphasis mine-

Not just being present, but taking his stand...reminds me of Psalm 24:7-10, and Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus saith the LORD [YHWH] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD [YHWH] of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God."
-emphasis mine-

It is not baptism that redeems us, but the atonement that God has provided, just like He did in the time of Abraham on Mt. Moriah (Golgotha/Calvary/The Skull in the NT; same exact place, just outside Jerusalem).

Blessings!

Wilby thanks,

I heard even most European Messianics claim that Jesus said. It is fulfilled...
sorry for my English. But Finished has another meaning...

So IF... Jesus fullfilled his mission, and even might have fullfilled the LAW.
I still have to fullfill my mission in the way the Almighty means it for me. And if I fullfill today the Law to waer Tzitzit, or to say the blessing after the meal... It doesn't mean finished. So tomorrow I still have to say the blessing after the meal, scirptically Laws...

So I don't know, but even if I was a Messianic Jew, I will keep the commandments that the Almighty gave...

And it is not True that the Holy Spirit was only in a building...
Some Christians sing for example also the Psalm with...:  ''don't take thy Holy Spirit from me'' very personall and Old Testimenticall.
Maybe after Jesusdeads 50thday the Holy Spirit started to speak to the 70 nations also... I don't know.
But I never felt/understood that we are without the Holy Spirit.
I guess that is more a Christian dogma.

I might find your heritage interesting, allthough I don't know where you come from... At least I didn't write that it is not worth a thing of not interesting. But if you are not Jewish, It might be harder to understand what Jesus said or meant... But maybe just as hard as it is for me to go back in my mind to pre-Talmudic times, to understand how Judaism dealth with other nations in the Land, Because not much is written about that. The Laws are clear, but not in all details, and not the sociologicall effects etc.
Also It is hard for me to understand Americans even, here in Israel I meet a lot of American Jews off course. But for me regular Americans is very much another culture than Europeans... so I can't judge Americans even allways, if the are serious about what they are saying or disappointed, or just have an American poker-smile...

1) What he "finished" was the fulfillment of the Holiness and Righteousness of God taught in Torah and pertaining to atonement, that He did not need, He was perfect/sinless. He followed Torah to the very "tittle", and with proper attitude/heart toward the Father.

2) Yes, we still need to be obedient, but what has changed is that our atonement/covering is everlasting, and we can have a face-to-face relationship with Him like Adam had before he sinned. True "communion", live WITH him. Like Job prophesied, "with my own eyes I will see God", etc.




No, just wilby anti-Christ dogma. He does not represent Christianity, or Messianic Judaism, he represents his own "apostle", who has very anti-scriptural teachings. And he is here to mislead whoever will listen.

The Holy Spirit in the past indwelt/rested upon a few (prophets, for example)...but now He indwells all who are Christians. TRUE Christians, not "actors" like the Inquisitors of the horrid past who inhabited the hierarchy of the RCC. Or any others that espouse unrighteous HATE.

I invite you to read topics on THIS PAGE. In the main body of the page, and on the right there is a menu of other related topics.

Really?....seems the apostles and Jesus put a high regard for baptism...no baptism no newness of life...

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.  

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,(ind of amazing he didn't say "3 persons,one faith,one baptism)
  
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.  

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:  

you ignore baptism at your own risk...no baptism in water in HIS NAME no salvation even He was clear on that

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

If you don't believe then you won't be baptised therefore you shall be damned no matter what you claim in the way of faith or anything else you will be hearing the words "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity I know you not"but don't take my word for it keep on the way you are and when you stand at the White Throne Judgement you can take it up with Him

Jesus fulfilled scripture and he also said it is finished.
Two words, two scriptures apart with two different meanings.


Mark 15
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.

37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

John 19
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

  And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

The Jews do not like to say the word it is finished because that would me they need to let go of the Law and circumcision of the flesh.

Even the veil in the temple was opened up and the Spirit of God no longer dwells in buildings but man is now the temple of the Holy Ghost.

Unfortunately the Jews repaired the temple veil and continued in the old ways -- the O.T. ways even onto this day.

Apostle Paul many times tried to get the Jews to move away from the Law and to put their hope in the cross and Christ Jesus.

The N.T. has the Doctrine of Christ which has nothing to do with the O.T.

The Old Testemant ways are done -- IT IS FINISHED!

we are sealed with The holy spirit once we confess with our mouth romans 10-9-10 it by the holy spirit enter us the old man is dead and  new  one is here and we are risen to Life.


romans 6:3-4 and other verses are showing that its the symbolic act of what the holy spirit already did when the person accept Jesus at confessing.



peter 3:20 also says very clear this baptism does not clean one flith from there flesh.


Since baptism is not the same as taking a bath I would read this as Not cleaning us from sin No this happen at the point of confessing.



http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/1pet3.htm

prophet srry mark 16:16 will not help your case since it was added to The t ext by scribes later on in history.


mark 16:16 is not in any of the oldest greek scripts we have.


clement who was a friend of the apostles Never refers to any knowledge of this verse.


The Church fathers also did not know any mark 16:9-20 but they knew the ending which was written by the apostles mark 16:8.