JFJ Forums - Saved according to scripture--Get Saved!

Ripley's Wrote:

sugarman~

Quote:

willby forgets its the mouth that confess unto salvation The MOUTH not baptism.

And even that confession of the mouth is FROM the faith that already exists in our hearts. And the faith is what saves. The confession is ANOTHER evidence of our salvation, not the cause of it. (I think you agree, but just want to clarify.)

wilby~

Quote:

The words that I say are from scripture, all the scripture, not just parts of it.

I beg to differ with you.

What of Ephesians 2:8,9?

How do those verses fit with your view of salvation by baptism, and that in Jesus' name ONLY? (Not "just" a work, but a "work done exactly like this or it is ineffectual"...according to you, and in contradiction to Jesus' OWN WORDS: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost")

Also, address the scripture that I just referenced in this thread: the baptism of Jesus.

One must reconcile ALL scripture. "ALL scripture is God-breathed."

How do your views fit with ALL the Apostle's views of salvation by baptism? This is what you need to ask yourself! They lead the way but you are not following.

Wilby Wrote:

So, Matt. 28:19, far from contradicting the Apostolic form of baptism, actually confirms their actions, especially in the light of this revelationary Truth, viz. that YAHU'SHUAH is YHVH.

YHVH is the Name of the Almighty in the Old Testament (Ex. 6:3;  20:1);  it is  the Name of the Father (Isa.63:16;  64:8);  the Name of the Only God worshipped by the Patriarchs, by Moses, the Prophets, etc.; and it is the Name of the SON!  Yes, the Prophet Jeremiah’s writings echo the very Words of God Almighty in speaking of the Messiah -

Jer. 23:6

"And this is the Name He (the Messiah - verse 5) will be called: ‘YHVH-our-integrity’".

Alternative translations of this verse reads as follows :

King James : "The Lord our Righteousness"
(Marginal note in Reference edition gives it as: ‘JEHOVA-Tsidkenu’"

Moffat::  “The Eternal our Champion”

In the New Testament the Father, Who is the Eternal Spirit Being, manifested Himself in flesh (1 Tim. 3:16) to save His people from their sins (Matt. 1:21) and was called ‘YHVH-SHUAH  (Shua = Saviour), which. in abbreviated form, is YAHU'SHUAH.

The apostles did NOT misunderstand Messiah's Command!

The Name of the Father is -
YHVH (or YAHU) the Eternal

The Name of the Son is -
YHVH (or YAHU) the Saviour

The Name of the Holy Spirit is -.
YHVH (or YAHU) the Spirit.

The Eternal and Supreme Being is ONE Being,  as many will only find out in the Day of judgment.

Zech, 14:9

"And YHVH shall be King over all the earth.  In that day shall there be One LORD (YHVH) and His Name One".

Put differently: The Almighty YHVH, in His Heavenly form, is the FATHER
- in His omniscience He is the Holy Spirit, and
-  in His human manifestation He was The ‘Son’

There is Salvation in no other than the ‘Son’ (Acts 4:12) - Who is also the Holy Spirit as well as the Father!  In His manifestation as the ‘Son of God’, the Lamb of Sacrifice - YAHU'SHUAH - His Name brings Salvation - consequently the apostles baptised in His Name..

YAHU'SHUAH is the FATHER!
- In His DIVINITY a Spiritual Being, from everlasting to everlasting;

YAHU'SHUAH is the SON? - In His Humanity,  the Lamb of Sacrifice . for our sins, our Saviour
- Redeemer

YAHU'SHUAH is the HOLY SPIRIT?
- In His Omnipresence,  our Comforter - Companion, All Power unto Holiness!

Can you now understand why the apostles baptised in the Name of the Saviour - Why we should also be baptised in His Name? .

again Instead of going into your views why do you not look at what the greek really says about mattt 28;19

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/web/Trinity7.htm

Wilby Wrote:

[quote=Ripley's]
sugarman~

How do your views fit with ALL the Apostle's views of salvation by baptism? This is what you need to ask yourself! They lead the way but you are not following.

How do your views fit with ALL the Apostle's views of salvation by baptism? This is what you need to ask yourself! They lead the way but you are not following.[/color][/size]

Read the above verse and tell yourself what it is saying. What are the first three words in that verse? "The Like figure" are the first three words in that verse. The keywords in those three words are: "like figure." If you read Romans 6:3-4, you'll notice in verse 4, it says: "like." In both of these verses, the word "like" is making reference to the one we're baptized in a like matter unto, not for the remitting of our sins.

Later in this verse, you see it says: "the answer of a good conscience toward God." This making it even more clear that water baptism has nothing to do with our salvation. It tells the believer who is reading it that the baptism is a command by Christ of obedience, not for saving a soul. Romans 6:3-4 is also used to support "Baptism Regeneration." I encourage you to read it, just keep in mind that it has "like" in there indicating baptism is nothing more than a command of Christ to all believers.

baptism is symbolic if you do not agree then you disagree with the apostles.

The apostles would ask do you believe on Jesus? if they answer yes then they are saved as 1 eph 1;13 puts it one is sealed with the holy spirit when they believe. Baptism is obedience after Christ is In us.

two questions did The apostle say believe and be baptism to be saved or they they say believe and you will be saved and after they said yes they were baptism?

this shows that confessing with our mouth is made unto salvation as romans 10:9-10 says and if they said Yes THEN they were baptism as symbolic dying with Christ.

the real change is somone is when they Believe and baptism is symbolic of the change we receive ONCE WE BELIEVE.

another question did the man in acts have to wait for his salvation walking home with peter when he got baptism Or was he saved when he first heard peter and believe?

wilby~

what-E-ver....you refuse to answer my questions re: the scriptures I cited. Finding them "problematic"?? You are not wrestling with me, my friend, but with God. I pray God prevails in your heart and mind, like He did with Jacob.

"[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

"[As] an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, [so is] a wise reprover upon an obedient ear." Prov. 25:12

I actually PLEAD with you to set aside preconceived notions and simply read the Bible. See what conclusions you come to; ask the Holy Spirit to guide you; YHWH is faithful to those who earnestly seek Him.

sugarman Wrote:

Wilby Wrote:

[quote=Ripley's]
sugarman~
How do your views fit with ALL the Apostle's views of salvation by baptism? This is what you need to ask yourself! They lead the way but you are not following.

baptized in a like matter unto, not for the remitting of our sins.
Baptism is the ONLY way to remit the curse.

You say Christ commanded it but it does not save us?
Romans 6:3-4 is also used to support "Baptism Regeneration." I encourage you to read it, just keep in mind that it has "like" in there indicating baptism is nothing more than a command of Christ to all believers.
If Christ says something you better be obedient to it.

baptism is symbolic if you do not agree then you disagree with the apostles.????????????????

two questions did The apostle say believe and be baptism to be saved or they they say believe and you will be saved and after they said yes they were baptism?
Believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus

this shows that confessing with our mouth is made unto salvation as romans 10:9-10 says and if they said Yes THEN they were baptism as symbolic dying with Christ.
Without baptism there is NO salvation.

the real change is somone is when they Believe and baptism is symbolic of the change we receive ONCE WE BELIEVE.
In Your Words

Or was he saved when he first heard peter and believe?
Baptism in Jesus name.

You are certainly dull of hearing.

Believe and be baptized, that is correct.

Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit he can not enter the kingdom.

John 3
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

It is really so very clear yet you fight the truth.

prophet Wrote:

Actually he doesn't....as for where do we find that jesus is the name of the Father....its been posted in other threads...you know the one where he says "I come in my Father's Name"...ring a bell....
how about "If you had known the me you would have known the Father and now see him"
"I and m Father are one" and the same(my add for clarity)

I am in the Father and the Father is in me"...
The Father(Jesus is in me Holy Ghost) as the scripture says:

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

as I said ...I am in Christ and Christ is in me....just as Jesus said the Father is in me and I am in the Father....Holy GHost(Father)was in Jesus and Jesus put on the Father" Spirit just as He commands us to put on Him.

What does Yeshua being in the Father and the Father being in Yeshua have to do with the claim that the Father's name is Yeshua?

That's a non sequitor. If A is in B, it doesn't mean A is B. If the Holy Spirit is in me, does that mean I'm the Holy Spirit? The New Agers would say so, but not Christians.

Jesus said:

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus is declaring once again that He is ALL in ALL.

Peter understood the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost that why he baptized in the name YAHU'SHUAH. Being translated Yeshuah, then Jeshuah, then to us whom speak english it is Jesus. Of which Jeshua is probably the better translation for english. Anyway Jesus it is and Jesus it will remain for most.

The Father has different manifestations:

He formed himself into the image of a Son and gave life to the Son. All things were created by the Son. The Son says he does the will of His Father and speaks the words of His FAther. The Son is the Word of the Father. The Word was made flesh by the Holy Ghost overshadowing a woman and a body was made within her. That body is the perfect spotless lamb for sacrifice as He was made perfect, clean and spotless. He is the spotless Lamb for a sacrifice for the sin/curse of the world.

The shedding of His blood completed the salvation of the saints and many were seen walking the streets when Jesus resurected. Therefore, if we follow Jesus through death, burial and resurection His blood will remit the curse for us as well.

The infilling of the Holy Ghost is the ROCK that the Church is built on and after we are baptized we receive this gift from the Father. Christ is the Holy Ghost and Christ in us is our hope of glory.

GET SAVED!

Ripley's Wrote:

What of Ephesians 2:8,9?

Lets take a look at what Paul is saying in this part of:

What of Ephesians 2

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved Wink

Romans 6 written below

This is baptism. We are living in a period of grace.

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Being raised up means; after we are baptized we are raised up out of the water in the likeness of His resurection.

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This means; it will take ages to show us all the riches we will receive by being baptized into Jesus Christ. Baptism is a gift, given to us by the grace of God, which means by His kindness.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grace is kindness from God. Faith in the blood of the Lamb means; we believe that baptism in His name will save us.

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Christ did the work, we just follow Him.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

When we get baptized we are part of His work that He created by going to the cross and making a way for us to follow Him.

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Redemption is in Jesus Christ not in grace. His free gift by His grace which is His kindness towards us, salvation comes through Jesus Christ in baptism. Baptism points to the His shed blood so if you want His blood to touch and save you then make contact with the cross through baptism in Jesus name.

Romans 6

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins...

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Ephesians 2:6...hath quickened us together with Christ

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

GET SAVED!

Baptism is the ONLY way to remit the curse.

scripture?

You say Christ commanded it but it does not save us?
Romans 6:3-4 is also used to support "Baptism Regeneration." I encourage you to read it, just keep in mind that it has "like" in there indicating baptism is nothing more than a command of Christ to all believers.
If Christ says something you better be obedient to it.

you should read this part again

Later in this verse, you see it says: "the answer of a good conscience toward God." This making it even more clear that water baptism has nothing to do with our salvation. It tells the believer who is reading it that the baptism is a command by Christ of obedience, not for saving a soul

Believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus

Give me one verse that the apostle gave that they said believe and be baptism to be saved.

Why did the apostles only say Believe and left out baptism to the point it olnly use is if the person accpet Jesus with there mouth?

why did they wait to baptism somone before they confess?

Without baptism there is NO salvation.

again you mis-used scripture making The water literal the Blood and when baptism is SYMBOLIC AND A SYMBOL OF WHAT REALLY SAVES YOU.

Baptism in Jesus name.

so the person was not saved then and had to wait for baptism when in fact peter told him to believe and you will be saved?

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

[quote=Wilby]
[quote=Ripley's]
sugarman~
[size=medium]

baptized in a like matter unto, not for the remitting of our sins.
[color=red]Baptism is the ONLY way to remit the curse.

You say Christ commanded it but it does not save us?
Romans 6:3-4 is also used to support "Baptism Regeneration." I encourage you to read it, just keep in mind that it has "like" in there indicating baptism is nothing more than a command of Christ to all believers.
If Christ says something you better be obedient to it.

baptism is symbolic if you do not agree then you disagree with the apostles.????????????????

two questions did The apostle say believe and be baptism to be saved or they they say believe and you will be saved and after they said yes they were baptism?
Believe and be baptized in the name of Jesus

this shows that confessing with our mouth is made unto salvation as romans 10:9-10 says and if they said Yes THEN they were baptism as symbolic dying with Christ.
Without baptism there is NO salvation.

the real change is somone is when they Believe and baptism is symbolic of the change we receive ONCE WE BELIEVE.
In Your Words

Or was he saved when he first heard peter and believe?
Baptism in Jesus name.

Nope it clear you mis-used scripture to twist the truth i will deal with this passage later

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