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I was sprinkled as a baby, even though I was six when saved, because my mom loved me enough to symbolize her commitment to raising me in the Christian faith in hopes that one day I might be saved. Also, mikveh would be dangerous for me, because I have cerebral palsy and can't swim on my own; and if I slipped in that pool or river, or if I was carried away, I'd be hospitalized or dead. So, any mikveh-only fundamentalists can keep the kvetching about my sprinkling to themselves.

cont
You also make some statement about “Unitarians who interpret scripture better”.  My understanding of baptism is consistent with scripture, AND it is consistent with the writings of the early church, AND it is consistent with the unanimous teachings of the church until the Reformation, AND it is consistent with what most Christians still hold true today.  Are we all wrong and your interpretation correct?



Are you aware that from 100ad-2008 It been a practice to  hold back baptism until The new convert fully understood what he was being taught?


Compare information found in "History of the Christian Church," Vol. II, pp. 256-57, by Philip Schaff]:

"During the period of 100-311 A.D. it became the practice to place converts on a probationary period of teaching for approximately two years before baptism to make certain that their conversion was genuine"

willby when are you going to back up your statements with The koin greek that the Nt was written In.


Explain how water baptism leads to everlasting life when it a noun and The real change comes from The holy spirit Not ritual baptism The verb.

The problem with you statement is that it contradicts scripture.

Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


To believe means 'to accept as true, genuine, or real'. So if a person 'confesses with their mouth Jesus as Lord, and accepts in their heart that God raised Him fron the dead, you will be saved'.

You are opposing proclaiming Jesus as Lord and accepting the truth in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. Yet scripture clearly says if you believe/accept as truth in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved. It is not 'religion' which says, it is God Who says confess Jesus as Lord and accept in your heart Jesus was raised from the dead and you will be saved.

Scripture points and speaks of Jesus.  

To believe means 'to accept as true, genuine, or real'. So if a person 'confesses with their mouth Jesus as Lord, and accepts in their heart that God raised Him fron the dead, you will be saved'.
NOT true

BTW--It says shall be saved.
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So when the Ethiopian confessed he was then saved by baptism into Jesus. Phillip did not stop at confession as you do !!


Explain this.

Phillip taught the Ethiopian about Jesus--the Ethiopian confessed with all his heart the Jesus is God--ONLY then would Phillip baptized him in Jesus name. ONLY after confessing---BELIEVING without action means nothing and this applies to many things in life.


Acts 8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost IS YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR SALVATION.

Believing is confession--the difference being is you can believe without saying a word and confessing is opening stating that you believe.

Believing without baptism is NOT enough.

Prowler -  Your “1Pe 3:21 AMP” quote does indeed need further explanation because you’ve taken it out of context.  Look at how you’ve added to scripture by inserting parentheticals to support your view.  Read the verse 3:20!!!!!!  Instead I’ll quote:  “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The “like figure” is a classic type/antitype that can be seen throughout scripture.  This is an example of how the great flood, and salvation of Noah and his family, is a prefigurement of baptism.  I’ve already pointed out many other antitypes in a previous post.  Again, this is putting baptism in a Jewish and orthodox Christian context, not an Evangelical Protestant context.

And why do you quote Mk 16:16 to support your position when it actually opposes it? “Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”  What part of AND is unclear?  The verse does not say “he who believes and is saved shall be baptized.”

And the second part …  “but whoever does not believe will be condemned” means simply that – you are condemned if you do not believe.  You cannot infer, without “adding to scripture”, and defying principles of logic, that this verse means you are saved by believing -  it only says you are condemned by not believing.  It would contradict the very sentence that precedes it!!!!
Cont …

… cont
Then you go on to say for salvation we need “faith in Christ onto salvation and co-operation with the Holy Spirit on earth to receive the promise.”  Amen brother!!!!  But what does it mean to cooperate with the Holy Spirit?  Be careful how you respond because this is beginning to sound a little less like Sola-Fide and a little more like Faith/Works.

Those who believe baptism is regenerative do not hold this belief because “they think the Name and the blood of Jesus was not good enough and needs to be coupled with the water baptism ritual”.  We hold it for the very reason that Jesus poured out his blood for us.  What gushed from his side at the Cross?   Blood AND water!!!!!  I’ve already pointed out in a post in a different thread how this is prefigured in Ez 47:1-12, especially Ez 47:8f (In speaking of the “Temple” … Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: [which being] brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, [that] every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.)   Again we see baptism put in a Jewish and orthodox Christian context rather than an Evangelical Protestant context.

Once again, the ordinary plan for our salvation is by God’s grace through faith and baptism.  It is a both/and not an either or.

Faith: Just a few things.

1. Wilby, does scripture show this man mikveh'd (got baptized)?

'But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.' Luke 23:40-43

He called and believed on the name of the Lord and was saved.

However,

2. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

Scripture is clear baptism is requisite and one is not without the other (faith and baptism).

Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.' Matthew 3:13-15

What does this mean?

1. There is no evidence the first man was baptized, just faith.

but...

2. Jesus Himself said,

'Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' John 3:5

3. Jesus Himself was mikveh'd (baptized) to fulfill all righteousness.

Therefore, it is clear one is not mutually exclusive of the other as you are emphasizing here. Your emphasis is exclusively baptism. However, such is piecemeal to scripture. WHOLE scripture is what we are for because,

'For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.' - Isaiah 33:22

Remember, it was capital punishment to eat of the show bread designated for the Levitical Priests. But, David did exactly that and gave it to those who were with Him.

God is not an indifferent bureaucrat. He shows compassion for our individual needs and situations because His law of grace is higher than the letter. Therefore, David honored God by knowing this and eating the bread where he and the many with him had none and no other alternative for sustenance. But under normal circumstances he honored God's law to the letter.

Thus, scripture is clear, be baptized in faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. The two go hand in hand.

God bless.

Goy – your experiences are the same as a majority of Christians.  They were baptized as infants with the understanding that the parents (and God parents) will raise them in the faith, through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.  You don’t need to have a special “conversion experience” to be “saved” like some teach.  (Although I suppose one could consider their baptism a conversion experience).

And don’t feel bad about your “sprinkling” vis-a-vis immersion.  The early Christians practiced both forms (proof in the Didache, a Christian document and candidate for sacred scripture, written around 90 A.D.).  For those who insist proof must come exclusively from scripture and not from the oral traditions passed down by the Apostles, you can turn to another prefigurement of baptism from the prophet Ezekiel.

(Ez 36:25-29)   Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.    And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

Here’s a summary of what this “sprinkling” does:
1) Cleanse from filth (removal of sin)
2) Gives a new heart of flesh rather than stone (enabling us to allow the H.S. to work within us)
3) Gives us a new Spirit.  (can this be anything other than the Holy Spirit?)
4) Cause us to walk in statutes and keep judgments and do them (gives us the grace to be obedient)
5) Ye shall be my people and I will be your God (adoption into God’s covenant family)

This is precisely what orthodox Christians believe about baptism.   Can you imagine how excited the first century Messianic Jews were to see this prophecy of Ezekiel fulfilled????  Is God’s promise given to us through the prophet Ezekiel merely symbolic?  I don’t believe it is, nor did the early church, nor did all of Christianity for 1500 years, nor does most of Christianity today.

Acts 8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.



Willby it clear you deny romans 10-9-10.   lets connect romans with the verses you Posted.



Philip ask do you believe with all your heart and The guy said yes I believe Jesus The son of God and then what did philip do?  He baptism right after his confessing and why?  Romans says very Clear

omans 10:9-10 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  


so willby it because The person believe with all His heart is when we are saved.    when Philip ask do you believe with all your heart he answer yes He was saved right there before baptism.

He was baptism because again This shows not what what water did but it represents what The holy ghost did.


again willby both baptism and faith are nouns not verbs.


If your were right in what you say baptism should be a verb then.