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Regarding your response (Post #367) where you claim “An intelligent person will at least admit and see that this verse can be interpreted both ways.”.  Are you saying that either interpretation is correct?  Sounds like relativism to me – “scripture means whatever you want it to mean”.  This is a tool of the enemy!!!!  I’ve stated many times in my posts that I believe that scripture is infallible.  What is not infallible is our interpretation of it.  That is why Jesus gifted the Church with the power of the Holy Spirit.  The Church, as Paul states, is the “Pillar and Foundation of Truth” (1Tim3:15), not our own personal interpretations of scripture.  So we can turn to this Pillar and Foundation of Truth to understand baptism and use this as a guide to interpreting scripture.  As I’ve stated (and no one has yet proven otherwise), until some time after the Protestant reformation, nearly all Christians believed in the regenerative nature of baptism.  It was not until some time after the reformation and after the “age of enlightenment”  that a minority of Christians began to believe that baptism was merely symbolic.  Why should I reject the teachings of the Pillar and Foundation of Truth over a tradition of man invented some 1500 years later?

My sentiments exactly.

People are struggling with 1500 years of satan and man twisting scripture -- this is the most popular form of wile of the devil.

Put on the whole armour of God so you can stand against the wiles of the devil.

When I take a stand for truth in salvation this is what I am doing.

Ephesians 6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

wiles means trickery

You all love your pastors and your church but do not love them more than God--when new truth comes your way and you reject it you will be accountable--sorry for being so bold but it may just save a persons soul.

Wiles of the devil
Gensis 2
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genisis 3
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Wiles of the devil
Gensis 2
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genisis 3
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Jesus said to be baptized.

Many people say just believe---why support this doctrine of man/satan?

A believer was always a person whom was baptized into Jesus. Always---not sometimes but absolutely always.

Does Jesus believe in rituals?

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Yet for many here it is just symbolic---this was not a message given by the Holy Ghost so where did such a statement originate from?

What is righteousness? --it is the quality or state of being just or rightful--being RIGHT--doing what is right.

Jesus was baptized because it is right---NOT wrong or symbolic but RIGHT.

Jesus even commanded baptism for all nations--- just for the fun it?

Who has convinced people that all you have to do is believe and stop right there---who would say such a thing? SATAN would say it--he will say anything to stop your chance for salvation.

Are we saved when we receive His name and the Holy Ghost? We could be but in reality it only puts us on the right road to salvation therefore, our salvation journey is not over until the end----overcome and endure until the end.

Then we can say I have fought a good fight, I have kept The Faith--which is the doctrine of Christ.

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Salvation is an ongoing battle between the flesh and the spirit. Just ask Apostle Paul about it and he will tell you.

Wilby, responding to your post #338:

Please supply the scripture reference(s) that say:

We do not have to admit we are sinners.

Water baptism applies the blood of the Lamb to our life.

The taking of communion remits sin.

No I am simply saying that you can not argue that verse by LETTER for it is subject to the hearing heart. So you can not tell me it only means "A" for in a court of law neither position could exclude the other and the contract would be considered obscure and none binding.

Therefore we now must consider which position the L-rd takes on this subject (the original author). I have zero doubts regarding my position in Him because of the greater confirmation of the L-rd's power resting on confession of faith even and over the water baptism and good works. Power rests on both and the OT is proof but the evangelical position far exceeds in signs and wonders among the gentile nations while your argument chokes the church.

I consider both position as Christian. I consider you as a brother in error but never the less saved by His grace. I believe your position is religious but I do not question your salvation for you clearly confess Christ even though you may at times rob the Gospel of its power.

I understand that you will reject salvation of those who confessed Christ by those "false teachers as you call them' but I hope you don't go as far as to call miracles performed  by those evangelists preaching salvation in Jesus Name alone as the work of the enemy. I should stress I really dislike your attitude of calling everyone as "false teacher' just because we interpret an aspect of the Gospel differently. False teacher is not someone who errs in part yet confesses Christ as both L-rd and G-d who came in the flesh...

shalom

Greek logic does not work with the bible!

We do not have to admit we are sinners. We are born with sin.

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

The sin unto death is the one that has been passed unto everyone--we are born with it. It MUST be removed by baptism into Jesus.

Romans 3
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Confession of sin is different as this comes in the form of repentance before being baptized and then before taking communion.

We have to apply the blood to our life--we can not just believe in the blood it MUST be applied to each one of us on an individual basis--HOW?

Remember the death angel and Israel had to apply the blood to their own door post --Just believing in the blood would not help them--they had to apply it to their life--as we do.

Hebrews 11:28
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

When Jesus went to the cross He called it baptism and He also said we would be baptized as well by following Him through death burial and resurrection---We do not have to shed our blood but by following Him we our applying His blood to our life. Read it for your selves.

Matthew 20:23
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

The taking of communion remits sin.

John 6:56
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matthew 26
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

hmmmm I guest you annoy jesus words before his death it is finish?


and what is finishing?  The old way of justification.

For The arugement of the water saved Noah please read this.



http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/1pet3.htm




and also for mark 16:16 two things.


WS mark 16;16 is knowledge by most scholars to be an addition to the bible.


mark 16:16 is not found in most oldest scripts we have of the new testament.


Also it says whoever Believe and is baptise shall be saved but whoever does not Believe shall be condemn.



does The laster part go against The First?


First of if this verse is legit  then one should understand that man is so deprave it can do nothing on it own for salvation.


The  bapitism  saves doctrine teaches one does not have Christ or the holy spirit when one first Believe but when they take action into baptism.


This is the firs tred flag This doctrine shows that man himself does not need God to draw him because we can draw our self to God.


Also eph is clear we are creation to do good works in Jesus.


But when do the works come in and obeying Jesus before salvation or after?


I strongley believe The works of in and  obeying Christ after The new creation The holy spirit does in you.


People need to understand that baptism etc... comes natural after one receives Christ in there life.

The holy spirit will change them literal to obey Christ.


People will have the natural new side to them that they would be like wow I did not believe I did this man I know I would of not did this unless The I was truly literal change by God spirit.



mark 16;16 is simple in my mind.


connect romans 10:9-10  to this story


36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


it pretty Clear he did not baptize Him until after He made his confessing romans 10:9-10.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

he was saved  on the spot when He believe with all his heart and when he confess with his mouth.


This is the reason He was Hinder because he was not saved until He believe with his heart and confess with his Mouth.


Like i said before baptism is a noun not verb person place or Thing.


The holy spirit is the verb what takes action.  The waters only reflect the image of what The spirit does to one inside.

I'm not Unitarian I believe in the trinty and do not believe baptism is a must for salvation.


They did not hold back baptism until they fully repented.   You fully repented at the spot you ask Christ to come your master and forgive you of your sins.


They held back baptism Because it has deep symbolic meanings that one needs to understand The basics of scripture before they can understand what baptism is.


I see nothing wrong on making sure a new convert knows exactly knows what he is doing .

For example Prowler When you Get a new job, you do not just jump to it right?


The people will first direct you to make sure you understand your job.


same with baptism, they just want to make sure They understand what they are cliaming.