JFJ Forums - Saved according to scripture--Get Saved!

Burning Bush Wrote:

I have read it Ripley; a hundred times. More importantly, I've had it made LIFE in me, and I've walked in that life.

I'll phrase it this way, and these things actually happened to me in the beginning of my walk (and sometimes still do).

I was born again, and the 3rd day after the L-rd spoke something to me out of a book I had never read before, and the unsaved came to me to tell me none of it was G-d. TOO LATE, He already got me!

I was walking in the gifts of the Spirit which are activated by the baptism in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and the Baptists came to tell me it was not for today. TOO LATE, He already got me!

I was walking in a deliverance ministry HE started with me, casting out evil spirits in His name and watching people being healed and the Pentecostals came to me to tell me a Christian couldn't have an evil spirit. TOO LATE, He already taught me!

And I could go on and on with examples, because anytime G-d does something, immediately Satan comes to steal the Word/breath from our hearts, because essentially he is trying to "suffocate" us until we die.

Which is why man shall not live by bread (letter of the Word) alone, but by every word (Spirit breathed) that comes from the mouth of G-d. So basically, we want to keep breathing in that Spirit breathed LIVING Word, until the last enemy is overcome.

And I liked your "Holy Meltdown" comment, Lol

Good one (smile), I can identify with that, too.
Blessings....

do not forget The bible says but Lord did we not cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name?

Jesus then said I never knew you.

Not saying you not saved but just because someone can do miracles like apostles or cast out demons etc... does not mean they are true christians.

The quite often seen prelude to a sermon about 'unbelievers' and the often apparent look in the eye of a Christian, which tells the story of their intimate beliefs is "if only you could see it!" I have not had a teenage daughter, but I know the stereotypical response they often thrust upon their parents. "You don't understand me!" The problem isn't that the parents don't understand, its that they understand all to well.

Burning Bush - post #555 Wrote:

Baptistic - post #554 Wrote:

Both they and we must weigh our respective claims on the Bible, and this is where the tendency to rely on for doctrine and theology or a spiritual superiority, experience, sensations, visions, visitations, or dreams, manifests with those who have been taught wrong and have received that wrong teaching. It is so a part of their spiritual identity, it would be like expecting them to cut their hand off to deny it. They cannot do it. Only God can make Himself real to us through the hearing of the gospel, and they believe God is not only real to them, but He is closer to them than to any other by reason of the various sensational or visual experiences. As you point out, this is spiritual deception.

With all due respect Baptistic, "that wrong teaching", and "spiritual deception", is all through the Word.

No, it is not. Note that I reinserted the context of my quote and colored red what is false teaching and spiritual deception.

Burning Bush - post #555 Wrote:

Thank G-d He gives visions, visitations and dreams, and we can experience a LIVING WORD, though the manifestation of His Spirit. And thank G-d that ALL the patriarchs in the OT were faithful to record their visions, visitations, dreams, ect., not to mention those of Yeshua, Peter, John, Phillip, Stephen, 120 on the day of Pentecost, ect.

Since G-d is no respecter of persons and since it says we have a BETTER covenant than those of the OT, logic alone dictates that we would have everything they had, and then some. Praise G-d we do. Blessings.....

I note that you lump "Yeshua" in with other men. The logic you invoke here does not follow 1 Cor. 12. Visions, visitations and dreams are not had to "be like" the patriarchs or the apostles or the Lord Jesus. The gifts are given for edification (the "common good") and only by the will of God. Further, God does not contradict Himself or share His glory. Therefore, it is not edifying to claim as proof of doctrine or theology an experience that contradicts the Word of God, or to assert a spiritual superiority by reason of an experience. That is where false teaching and spiritual deception manifest.

http://www.carm.org/baptism/Mark_16_16.htm

steadfast your trying to build a case base on what scholars Believe to be an addition to the bible.

mark 16:16 etc.... others you quote are not even in the oldest scripts we have and even The Church fathers admitted there self we do not hold any greek script with mark 16.

As for baptism of the holy spirit people need to stop limited the spirit to there own personial experience. Each experience of holy baptism  might be different for another.

we can find in scripture when people spoke in tongues after receiving the spirit and we can find others receiving it with no tongues mention.

Tongues is not The evidence of the holy spirit ALL gifts are not just One.

For Me before I really was admitted to Jesus I mean I grow up in a christian home and I told people when I was young Yes i believe but the thing is I did not know what I admitted. I always was a shy person who would not really give there opinion even thou I was right or wrong but when I was really sold out for Jesus and Knew what I was saying I became strong not shy no more I became very strong on speaking truth and the other thing is most of the times words just hit me to say in a situation to help people or in defending the faith.  I know for sure This was the holy spirit who turn me 180 degress from shy to bold.

If we would look in scripture we came even find the same experience I had in scripture.

and steadfast we do not deny Jesus what do you think we mean when we say  in the name of The father and The SON and The holy ghost?

Burning Bush Wrote:

I was walking in a deliverance ministry HE started with me, casting out evil spirits in His name and watching people being healed and the Pentecostals came to me to tell me a Christian couldn't have an evil spirit. TOO LATE, He already taught me!

We had a home group of 20 split on this issue... we were later prohibited to minister there... a few things happened since and they have repented from their error but that particular group is not functioning as it was in the beginning and I am not part of it now except to visit in love... we had many hot meetings there... maybe one day it will be restored...

Ripley's Wrote:

I AM NOT QUESTIONING GIFTS. I am questioning the message that is CONFIRMED by those gifts.

This thread reminds me of Stuart on Mad TV. "Look what I can do!"

I keep saying, "Look at Jesus."
Others are saying, "Look what I can do!", while tripping on the Cornerstone, insisting on a formula (of works and words) for salvation, demanding that we are all a tongue, etc.

For the record, why are you dismissing (one of) my gifts: to another discerning of spirits? 1 Cor.12 KJV

Nor have my posts been totally about the gifts; far from it. In this one, you must have missed the first paragraph about the unsaved trying to tell me G-d didn't do that, if reference to my salvation experience. And you are still missing the point; it is NOT look what WE can do, but rather look what HE, HE, HE DOES, through a believer, who, A) believes HE can.

I don't question your salvation Baptiste, but what you fail to realize is that faith is the substance of things not seen. Let's clarify that. The substance (that is manifested in the natural seen realm), is what you had faith for. Baptiste, where is your faith? Where is the substance of what you believe the L-rd for?

If you are denying the second substance (the first being you KNOW you have been accepted into the Beloved, which is the first work of the HS), which is the evidence that He rose from the dead (in YOU, ie. that of the baptism in the Holy Ghost manifesting tongues through you), so that, as it says, you might PRAY (not the gift of tongues and interpretation obviously) in the Spirit, building up your MOST HOLY FAITH), then it is IMPOSSIBLE for the other gifts to operate, because the gifts and the giver (the glorified RISEN L-ord) are the one and the same.

He shed forth this which you see and hear; this is the SUBSTANCE of what HE believed for, ie. that He would see HIS SEED (which is SPIRIT) MANIFESTED OPENLY, and be able to reproduce that nature. HE, the L-rd that is SPIRIT now, that we'll not know after the flesh anymore, was NOT cut off, as a man that dies prematurely and left no seed to carry on his name/nature. Who will declare (means to show openly) His glory? Who indeed.

The 120 were told to stay in Jerusalem until they be endued with POWER from on high. This gift, it says, is unto ALL them that the L-rd has called, even those that be afar off. He called you didn't He?

To be continued.....

Part 2

The gifts operate through our MOST HOLY FAITH, which is the faith of the Holy Ghost, not our faith. Our faith dares to believe G-d for it as written, THEN, the Holy Ghost steps in and does the works. There are 3 levels of faith, that correspond to the 3 parts of the tabernacle.

Speaking of works, you can't keep yourself from error either, else that would be of your doing, and not the HG's who does the works. It was built right into the veil that we have to pass through, those cherubim (means IMAGINATIONS or imaginary figures) that were part of His plan from the beginning, so that no man could take the glory for himself. Only the Father can rend this veil, for that reason.

My two cents; I think Steadfast is saved, and I think the HG manifested through him at the wailing wall, and I think any error he may have fallen into, the HG will correct in due season, maybe even through this thread if that is His will at this time. Blessings....

sugarman Wrote:

do not forget The bible says but Lord did we not cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name?

Jesus then said I never knew you.

Not saying you not saved but just because someone can do miracles like apostles or cast out demons etc... does not mean they are true christians.

Sugarman, I'm going to expand on this and I want you to know it is not directed at you personally or anyone in particular, up front, so please don't take offence, as none is intended.

The ultimate illustration of what He was talking about in this passage, was given to us in the seven sons of Sceva story in Acts. 19. Sceva was a Jew, one of the priests, and his sons, after seeing the fruit (the devils left the people) of what Yeshua did, went and tried to cast out a devil in a man by USING HIS NAME ONLY, much like a "magic word", without relationship with Him first. The devil DID NOT LEAVE, and even questioned their authority by saying who it knew DID have the authority to do so.

Therefore, the point here is that the devil DID NOT GET CAST OUT, but rather they used His name like a ritualistic incantation. So the term "casting out devils in His name", does not mean they actually left, ie. so no fruit.

Pause......let's think on that for a moment. Taking on the name of someone is done all the time. The wife takes on the husband's name. We are to take on His name/nature. How are we using it? How is it being manifested?

The L-rd never knew them, in a sense in the biblical sense of a man knowing, or BEING ONE WITH, his wife, which wife we, the body, are, to our husband, the Spirit.

No relationship with the SPIRIT of the L-rd, no authority, as the oil runs from the Head down to the shoulders (the authority rests on the shoulders). So, perceiving no authority, the devil in the man attacked them, tore their clothes ragged, and bruised and bloody they went back to the apostles. It also says many came and brought their curious (means witchcraft) books to be burned, and many came to the L-rd as a result = fruit. Blessings....

Baptistic Wrote:

Burning Bush - post #555 Wrote:

Baptistic - post #554 Wrote:

Both they and we must weigh our respective claims on the Bible, and this is where the tendency to rely on for doctrine and theology or a spiritual superiority, experience, sensations, visions, visitations, or dreams, manifests with those who have been taught wrong and have received that wrong teaching. It is so a part of their spiritual identity, it would be like expecting them to cut their hand off to deny it. They cannot do it. Only God can make Himself real to us through the hearing of the gospel, and they believe God is not only real to them, but He is closer to them than to any other by reason of the various sensational or visual experiences. As you point out, this is spiritual deception.

With all due respect Baptistic, "that wrong teaching", and "spiritual deception", is all through the Word.

No, it is not. Note that I reinserted the context of my quote and colored red what is false teaching and spiritual deception.

Burning Bush - post #555 Wrote:

Thank G-d He gives visions, visitations and dreams, and we can experience a LIVING WORD, though the manifestation of His Spirit. And thank G-d that ALL the patriarchs in the OT were faithful to record their visions, visitations, dreams, ect., not to mention those of Yeshua, Peter, John, Phillip, Stephen, 120 on the day of Pentecost, ect.

Since G-d is no respecter of persons and since it says we have a BETTER covenant than those of the OT, logic alone dictates that we would have everything they had, and then some. Praise G-d we do. Blessings.....

I note that you lump "Yeshua" in with other men. The logic you invoke here does not follow 1 Cor. 12. Visions, visitations and dreams are not had to "be like" the patriarchs or the apostles or the Lord Jesus. The gifts are given for edification (the "common good") and only by the will of God. Further, God does not contradict Himself or share His glory. Therefore, it is not edifying to claim as proof of doctrine or theology an experience that contradicts the Word of God, or to assert a spiritual superiority by reason of an experience. That is where false teaching and spiritual deception manifest.

Baptistic Wrote:

I note that you lump "Yeshua" in with other men.

I lumped Him in, because HE IS the PATTERN Son, and the pattern Son, means He is the pattern that we are to be manifesting THROUGH the Spirit He gave us, and the power of the HG He gave us on the day of Pentecost. He was/is the epitome of all that has ever been manifested, though all the others listed.

Those gifts of the Spirit listed are HIS NATURE revealed, to be man manifested. For instance, word of wisdom, to the Samaritan woman, who after speaking with Him, ran into to town, saying, paraphrased, "Come see a man who told me everything I ever did."

1 Cor. 12: 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

All those people I listed as examples of the manifestation of the Spirit in each individual's life. They were given for us as an example of what and how the Spirit may choose to manifest to an individual. It is not limited by time or even by covenant, as many in the OT were as "overlappers" for lack of a better term, manifesting things in a covenant that was yet to come, BY FAITH, by believing the Word that is SPIRIT, that manifested to them.

Those gifts listed ARE HIM, manifesting His nature, and He is not saying that you can have only one gift/aspect of His nature, but rather that when in a group, the body, the needs of the group will be met by the Spirit, meeting the need by manifesting what is needed to EDIFY the body.

The fullness of G-d was in Him, and of that SAME fullness have we ALL received. Edify means to build up, but what is really being built up? It is two fold; the L-rd's body, which is SPIRIT enrobed in flesh, and the body of believers, being fashioned into a body more like His glorious body. When He is manifesting His nature through a gift, though a believer, HE IS SEEN. More gifts being manifested, more of His nature is seen.

Is He limited to what He can manifest and who He can manifest it through? Only if the person refuses to cooperate with the Spirit, thus quenching the Spirit. Sometimes it's out of ignorance, sometimes it's out of rebellion, sometimes it's out of pride in refusing to be humbled to be used in such a public display. I've quenched the Spirit myself for all of the above at different seasons in my walk, but thank G-d He is merciful to strengthen me when I am weak and overcome the pitfalls of my flesh. To be continued....