JFJ Forums - Saved according to scripture--Get Saved!

Part 2.....

I never said dreams and visions were given to "be like" the patriarchs of old. I said that they experienced those things as part of covenant with G-d, and since we have a better covenant, we have everything they had and more, and includes the Spirit manifesting Himself through dreams and visions, which are really the eyes of our understanding being opened to see as He sees.

Which is why Paul prayed for the eyes of our understanding to be opened. In all your getting, get understanding. Understanding in G-d's reality, is not mere mental assent to the veracity of an idea or philosophy, but is linked to the wisdom that is from above, ie. spiritually discerned, imparted by the Spirit only. Like Peter's revelation of who Christ Yeshua actually was, ie. who was actually speaking to him. Which is why we can read the Word with our carnal minds, and yet not have the understanding of the Spirit. Blessings....

Prowler Wrote:

Burning Bush Wrote:

I was walking in a deliverance ministry HE started with me, casting out evil spirits in His name and watching people being healed and the Pentecostals came to me to tell me a Christian couldn't have an evil spirit. TOO LATE, He already taught me!

We had a home group of 20 split on this issue... we were later prohibited to minister there... a few things happened since and they have repented from their error but that particular group is not functioning as it was in the beginning and I am not part of it now except to visit in love... we had many hot meetings there... maybe one day it will be restored...

A true christian can not be possess by an evil spirit as the spirit taking control of one actions.

They can only influence us but when we see people claiming to be christians but teaching another Jesus it clear they never knew the true jesus so the door for satanic actions is possible.

Akivareb Wrote:

The quite often seen prelude to a sermon about 'unbelievers' and the often apparent look in the eye of a Christian, which tells the story of their intimate beliefs is "if only you could see it!" I have not had a teenage daughter, but I know the stereotypical response they often thrust upon their parents. "You don't understand me!" The problem isn't that the parents don't understand, its that they understand all to well.

Akiva,
You could've stopped right at "I have not had a teenage daughter, but I know the stereotypical response they often thrust upon their parents. 'You don't understand me!'" Sometimes the parents don't understand their child. Did the parents of Jeremiah? Even Samuel and David? Jeremiah, Samuel, and David were all under the age of 14 years when they became neviim and a melekh-Yisra'el; and they were boys or men. Esther was a young woman, and she became a queen and wife of the Persian-Median king; so, Esther is somewhat like the example of the typical woman in present times except in this way: While Esther suddenly had to rule Persian Media, girls have Hollywood and feministic philosophy telling them constantly, "Go; rule the world!" Like Esther, if these girls don't meet or exceed the expectations that their people or culture wants them to, they and their people may be endangered; whereas men like David ultimately become the maverick heroes, even if they've had trials and tribulations.

Prowler Wrote:

We had a home group of 20 split on this issue... we were later prohibited to minister there... a few things happened since and they have repented from their error but that particular group is not functioning as it was in the beginning and I am not part of it now except to visit in love... we had many hot meetings there... maybe one day it will be restored...

Been there, done that, know the feeling. I was banned from a church I didn't even attend because so many of the pastor's people came to our Bible study (and EXPERIENCED the Spirit of G-d moving in their midst, as the body is supposed to be ALIVE and overflowing with the nature of the Spirit that manifests through the gifts) that he forbade his elders from coming to me for prayer or Bible study. G-d had other ideas and over a period of months, they all came anyway and G-d moved upon them.

People resist this foundational principle as they don't want to grow up into the Head and take their places as spiritual "priests" and "trim their wicks" every day, because this requires something of them, other than sitting and hearing a good sermon once a week. Work out your own salvation (word means deliverance also) with fear and trembling. No fear of the L-rd, no trembling.

The times and seasons belong unto the L-rd, and He will restore that which is eternal in the heavens, when He sees fit. Your obedience was not in vain. Blessings.....

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

Akivareb Wrote:

The quite often seen prelude to a sermon about 'unbelievers' and the often apparent look in the eye of a Christian, which tells the story of their intimate beliefs is "if only you could see it!" I have not had a teenage daughter, but I know the stereotypical response they often thrust upon their parents. "You don't understand me!" The problem isn't that the parents don't understand, its that they understand all to well.

Akiva,
You could've stopped right at "I have not had a teenage daughter, but I know the stereotypical response they often thrust upon their parents. 'You don't understand me!'" Sometimes the parents don't understand their child. Did the parents of Jeremiah? Even Samuel and David? Jeremiah, Samuel, and David were all under the age of 14 years when they became neviim and a melekh-Yisra'el; and they were boys or men. Esther was a young woman, and she became a queen and wife of the Persian-Median king; so, Esther is somewhat like the example of the typical woman in present times except in this way: While Esther suddenly had to rule Persian Media, girls have Hollywood and feministic philosophy telling them constantly, "Go; rule the world!" Like Esther, if these girls don't meet or exceed the expectations that their people or culture wants them to, they and their people may be endangered; whereas men like David ultimately become the maverick heroes, even if they've had trials and tribulations.

Hmmm... And my point was that the introduction to this segment proclaims "I will try to explain this clearly enough that everyone has a chance" As if non-Christians have til this point objected on account of the message being convoluted. The 'teenage' daughter could just as easily been described by the cooing of a thirsty baby. Even if Christianity were somehow at some point in someway true, who would care to believe it? It isn't subtle and it certainly isn't beautiful. Perhaps the Christian fear of relatedness to the chimpanzee lies in the fact that self-awareness has given them the option to push themselves to the limits of distinction. Right now hairlessness is the greatest attestment to the plausibility of your theology.

Opps! I don't know why I can't get this thing to let me edit my posts, but in the above one regarding the Samaritan woman, I meant to say, "word of knowledge", not word of wisdom. Sorry....

Burning Bush Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

do not forget The bible says but Lord did we not cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name?

Jesus then said I never knew you.

Not saying you not saved but just because someone can do miracles like apostles or cast out demons etc... does not mean they are true christians.

Sugarman, I'm going to expand on this and I want you to know it is not directed at you personally or anyone in particular, up front, so please don't take offence, as none is intended.

The ultimate illustration of what He was talking about in this passage, was given to us in the seven sons of Sceva story in Acts. 19. Sceva was a Jew, one of the priests, and his sons, after seeing the fruit (the devils left the people) of what Yeshua did, went and tried to cast out a devil in a man by USING HIS NAME ONLY, much like a "magic word", without relationship with Him first. The devil DID NOT LEAVE, and even questioned their authority by saying who it knew DID have the authority to do so.

Therefore, the point here is that the devil DID NOT GET CAST OUT, but rather they used His name like a ritualistic incantation. So the term "casting out devils in His name", does not mean they actually left, ie. so no fruit.

Pause......let's think on that for a moment. Taking on the name of someone is done all the time. The wife takes on the husband's name. We are to take on His name/nature. How are we using it? How is it being manifested?

The L-rd never knew them, in a sense in the biblical sense of a man knowing, or BEING ONE WITH, his wife, which wife we, the body, are, to our husband, the Spirit.

No relationship with the SPIRIT of the L-rd, no authority, as the oil runs from the Head down to the shoulders (the authority rests on the shoulders). So, perceiving no authority, the devil in the man attacked them, tore their clothes ragged, and bruised and bloody they went back to the apostles. It also says many came and brought their curious (means witchcraft) books to be burned, and many came to the L-rd as a result = fruit. Blessings....

and yet They claim to knew Yeshua . I think you forgot the part where jesus says many will come me Lord.

burning bush do you believe satan can also perfore miracles?

do you not think he can try to copy God?   jesus himself said many wonders and miracles will be done but the ones doing them are not of his in the last days.

I believe 100 % satan can operate in counterfeit wonders miracles gifts etc.....

The thing is when One teaches another jesus and goes there own way and teach a different path to salvation it clear who is leading the person and performing the great wonders.

steadfast teaches one must speak in tongues to be saved but I ask him this and still no answer.

What about people from the past 19 centurys where tongues was  little being done or more close not being done?

Where those people spirit filled or only the believers from the earlier 1905 or 1908s where tongues really started to kick in?

That question is for steadfast but anyone can answer it.

Burning Bush Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

do not forget The bible says but Lord did we not cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name?

Jesus then said I never knew you.

Not saying you not saved but just because someone can do miracles like apostles or cast out demons etc... does not mean they are true christians.

Sugarman, I'm going to expand on this and I want you to know it is not directed at you personally or anyone in particular, up front, so please don't take offence, as none is intended.

The ultimate illustration of what He was talking about in this passage, was given to us in the seven sons of Sceva story in Acts. 19. Sceva was a Jew, one of the priests, and his sons, after seeing the fruit (the devils left the people) of what Yeshua did, went and tried to cast out a devil in a man by USING HIS NAME ONLY, much like a "magic word", without relationship with Him first. The devil DID NOT LEAVE, and even questioned their authority by saying who it knew DID have the authority to do so.

Therefore, the point here is that the devil DID NOT GET CAST OUT, but rather they used His name like a ritualistic incantation. So the term "casting out devils in His name", does not mean they actually left, ie. so no fruit.

Pause......let's think on that for a moment. Taking on the name of someone is done all the time. The wife takes on the husband's name. We are to take on His name/nature. How are we using it? How is it being manifested?

The L-rd never knew them, in a sense in the biblical sense of a man knowing, or BEING ONE WITH, his wife, which wife we, the body, are, to our husband, the Spirit.

No relationship with the SPIRIT of the L-rd, no authority, as the oil runs from the Head down to the shoulders (the authority rests on the shoulders). So, perceiving no authority, the devil in the man attacked them, tore their clothes ragged, and bruised and bloody they went back to the apostles. It also says many came and brought their curious (means witchcraft) books to be burned, and many came to the L-rd as a result = fruit. Blessings....

Matthew 7:22 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)

Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
[NKJV at Thomas Nelson] [Thomas Nelson, Inc.]

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

acts 19 they were not cast out yes true but that not to say satan will not leave to deceive others to follow there doctrine when satan knows it from hell.

if we keep 7:22 in context it clear it saying past tense demons were cast out.

Quote:

Opps! I don't know why I can't get this thing to let me edit my posts,

None of us can edit our posts. They go out "as is" when we hit the Post Reply button. DOH!

Just an FYI.