JFJ Forums - Saved according to scripture--Get Saved!

Baptistic Wrote:

Burning Bush - post #587 Wrote:

We are not to be merely "imitators" of Christ, but we are to manifest the original, which is only made possible by the POWER to do so, given on the day of Pentecost. Christ IN US, the hope of glory. What is the glory we are hoping for? And of that SAME SPIRIT, have we all received.

Since you are confusing all three Persons as one Person, you misunderstand this hope. You say Christ is now a spirit again and will always be. This is a false statement. This is a terrible thing, because the Holy Spirit is called by Jesus the Spirit of truth. This is what looking to dreams and visions and other sensational experiences can do to one's spiritual understanding. Even if they produce tongues, supreme euphoria and earthquakes, they are nothing when they are ultimately false. They are certainly not of God, and the veil remains intact over the eyes of the understanding.

I think I covered this, as I am not Oneness. How can you NOT see that Christ is a Spirit? Hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Do you just think that meant because His flesh died on the cross? Paul knew His flesh died on the cross obviously, but Paul did meet a flesh Jesus, He saw NO MAN, only light, and that light is Christ. That Spirit is Who indwells us.

I may not be understanding what you are meaning here, as I don't get why you are saying I misunderstand this hope. Exactly what do you think the hope is?

With all due respect Baptiste, by your own admission you do not have the baptism in the Spirit as evidenced with speaking in tongues, so how does that qualify you to say what is or is not of the Spirit you don't have, EXCEPT as an INWARD anointing of initial salvation experience?

That IS the Spirit of Truth that shall come and lead us into all Truth. It came on the day of Pentecost, it is a free gift just like salvation, and it comes to justify. The scripture says these things follow them that believe, they SHALL speak....... it doesn't say, if they want to, if they think it's legitimate, if they feel like it. It says, THEY SHALL. To be continued......

Part 2 continued.....

The veil is upon the face/nature as long as Moses/the letter of the law understanding/waters below the firmament is read, that is fulfilled IN CHRIST. It is this, that keeps us looking at the literal, natural everything and not the true, which is seated in the HEAVENLIES/SPIRIT.

The Baptism in the HG, is being baptized into Christ's glorified body, which is seated in the Heavenlies, ie. being baptized into His resurrection life. That's why it's a Holy GHOST, ie. a ghost is a spirit that lived in a body. A Holy Ghost, is one that lived in a holy body, ie. the body of the L-rd, Jesus Christ. If the lump is holy, then the whole thing is holy. Thus the admonition of the L-rd to beware the leaven of the Pharisees/keepers of the LAW/ those that resist the Spirit.

The priests were anointed and made figuratively holy by this anointing, which means to set apart for service. Since the HG does the works, we are anointed with the diversity of the Spirit that does the works, which sets us apart for SERVICE.

The L-rd said to work while it is yet day, for the night cometh when no man can work. When the light of the world left the world, for a season until the day of Pentecost, death came and was/is the night that cometh when no man can work, because without the anointing, which is the HG, man cannot do the works. Staying in the realm of the letter with the veil of flesh that is appointed to die, IS DEATH reigning, which is why to be carnally minded is death.

The mind of Christ is appointed us in it's place, through the baptism in the HG that comes upon the HEADS, and it is this that begins to rend the veil of the flesh, that we can see Him as He is now, and be transformed into that image from glory (translated out of the kingdom of darkness/death of the carnal mind) to glory (and into the kingdom of light/Spirit life/ mind of Christ). Blessings....

Burning Bush Wrote:

Baptistic Wrote:

Burning Bush - post #587 Wrote:

We are not to be merely "imitators" of Christ, but we are to manifest the original, which is only made possible by the POWER to do so, given on the day of Pentecost. Christ IN US, the hope of glory. What is the glory we are hoping for? And of that SAME SPIRIT, have we all received.

Since you are confusing all three Persons as one Person, you misunderstand this hope. You say Christ is now a spirit again and will always be. This is a false statement. This is a terrible thing, because the Holy Spirit is called by Jesus the Spirit of truth. This is what looking to dreams and visions and other sensational experiences can do to one's spiritual understanding. Even if they produce tongues, supreme euphoria and earthquakes, they are nothing when they are ultimately false. They are certainly not of God, and the veil remains intact over the eyes of the understanding.

I think I covered this, as I am not Oneness. How can you NOT see that Christ is a Spirit? Hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Do you just think that meant because His flesh died on the cross? Paul knew His flesh died on the cross obviously, but Paul did meet a flesh Jesus, He saw NO MAN, only light, and that light is Christ. That Spirit is Who indwells us.

I may not be understanding what you are meaning here, as I don't get why you are saying I misunderstand this hope. Exactly what do you think the hope is?

With all due respect Baptiste, by your own admission you do not have the baptism in the Spirit as evidenced with speaking in tongues, so how does that qualify you to say what is or is not of the Spirit you don't have, EXCEPT as an INWARD anointing of initial salvation experience?

That IS the Spirit of Truth that shall come and lead us into all Truth. It came on the day of Pentecost, it is a free gift just like salvation, and it comes to justify. The scripture says these things follow them that believe, they SHALL speak....... it doesn't say, if they want to, if they think it's legitimate, if they feel like it. It says, THEY SHALL. To be continued......

Bush Give me one scripture that says Tongues is The Evidence of the holy spirit.

I mean are you aware that there are cases where people were spirit-filled and NO tongues are mention anywhere?

Acts 4

31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they continued to speak the Word of God with freedom and boldness and courage.

No tongues mention.

Also The holy spirit comes in after someone repent and believes. If they are true then The holy ghost will lead them to understanding of scripture etc...... You do not need tongues for the holy spirit to teach anyone anything.

Hi Sugarman; I don't have time tonight to give you a rundown on all of it, but I will get back to you. May I suggest you do what the L-rd had me to do initially? I knew nothing about nothing, and I looked up every scripture in there dealing with His power, the fullness, the gifts, and the HG, and cross referenced them as to content.

I didn't do this because I needed to believe it, I believed it as soon as I read about it the first time. But what I ended up with was about 2 legal pads full of handwritten scriptures that proved what I had already experienced by the simple act of believing what was written, and asking if it was of Him, to receive it. So simple a child could do it. Blessings to you.....

Burning Bush - post #596 Wrote:

I know He called Himself the Son of man, because, obviously incarnate He was the Son of man in the flesh.

No. He was the Son of God come in the flesh--the Son of man.

Burning Bush - post #596 Wrote:

The reason they feared [...] They thought he had been struck down, either by G-d or the Pharisees, for such, as judgment. [...]

No. The gospel writers gave clues as to what the disciples were reasoning, and this was not that reasoning. Jesus was walking on water, and they thought they saw a spirit.

Burning Bush - post #596 Wrote:

Note the witness of the 3 again. [...] He essentially told Nicodemus, I'm standing here, but I'm in heaven.

No. Oneness has God as a hypokrites, a roleplayer. This is what you are promoting. It is not scriptural.

Burning Bush - post #597 Wrote:

So the waters of condemnation to the flesh have a boat in them, full of disciples. Wood (boat) speaks of the wooden carnal nature of man which is why a shittim tree was used to construct the ark of the covenant, as a wood, it is fit only for the fire. The carnal nature is as Sodom (the flesh) and Gomorrah (the carnal mind). We can ONLY overcome these two by the fire of the HG that rains down upon our heads and begins to consume the carnal nature, until nothing is seen of it, just like nothing of the shittim wood was seen once overlaid with the inward gold (inward anointing = Christ in you) and the outward gold (outward anointing = you in Christ).

Again, you are mixing metaphors and scriptures to the point of confusing the disciples' boat with what the ark represents, which you misrepresent. Jesus Christ was not carnal. He was perfectly divine (fully God) and perfectly human (fully human), with no sin. This is what the ark shows, and why it was a mercy seat.

Burning Bush - post #597 Wrote:

When Peter finally obeyed the Word that was SPIRIT, ie. what the L-rd spoke, as He said I only speak what I hear my Father speak, and the Father is a Spirit, then Yeshua came IN THE BOAT, and IMMEDIATELY THEY WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Jesus said, God is a Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. You mis-relate this story. After Jesus fed the multitudes, He sent the disciples on ahead while He went up the mountain to pray. He came to them in the fourth watch of the night. Jesus said to Peter, “Come” and (after Peter sank and cried to be saved) “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” Jesus had to save Peter; Peter did not save himself by obedience. Jesus did not say, you must obey first, or I will not save you and come into the boat.

Burning Bush - post #597 Wrote:

For this reason, man shall not live by bread (Word that is letter) alone, but by every word (Word that is Spirit) that comes from the Father's mouth. The Word that is bread/letter mixed with the Word that is wine/Spirit, is TRUE COMMUNION, and He said to do this oft in remembrance of, or to re-member Him. What we are actually doing by following this pattern, is re-membering His body, which is SPIRIT.

See Deut. 8:3. Jesus' quotation of it further dispels your interpretation. Jesus was being tempted with the fact He could make His own bread, instead of waiting upon God as He fasted. Again, Oneness mistakes Jesus' body as only human with the Father indwelling. This is why you are going to convoluted lengths of dismiss the genuineness of the Son of man. It is by His broken body and His shed blood that we are redeemed. It is likewise by His bodily resurrection that we are both justified and will likewise be raised with incorruptible bodies.

Burning Bush - post #597 Wrote:

And the end result of that is, we are changed from glory (terrestrial/waters below the firmament/letter) to glory (celestial/firmament/Spirit). We don't know (through the carnal mind which is the enmity of G-d), what we will be like, but when He appears (Spirit revealed), we know we shall be like Him. Blessings...

See 2 Cor. 3:18 McGee gives Siewert's translation, excepting one word, transfigured should be transformed: "And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continue to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transformed into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit." This is a description of the work of the Holy Spirit in us, sent by the Father and by the bodily risen and bodily ascended Christ.

Burning Bush - post #598 Wrote:

1) I see nothing wrong with calling Him the pattern Son, as He is the Son the pattern was made from, therefore He is the pattern Son.

You're now attempting to change the meaning of the word pattern as given in scripture.  This is still error.

2) He arose bodily in a glorified body that walked through walls. I have never studied "Oneness" philosophies, and if you read my post about the Watchtower people, He took care of my instruction from them, the first week I was born again.

And He ascended in that same body.  And this same Jesus will return in the same way.  This is important to see.

I've never said anything about there not being 3. In fact, I've pointed out all the witnesses of 3 as I come to them, that underscore the three manifestations of the Godhead.

Manifestation in connection with the supernatural is a term of spiritualism.  It has to do with materialization.  When acknowledged that God has revealed Himself in three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), the term Person more accurately lets scripture say what it actually says.

However, since Yeshua said I ONLY say what I hear My Father speak, WHO exactly was it that said, "the Holy Spirit would take the things of Mine and show them unto you?"

Jesus Christ, the obedient, willing Son of God, was both sent by the Father and came to give His life a ransom for many.  When Christ said, "I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him (the Father)" John 8:26 this is one example of that obedience; for Jesus also said, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him (Jesus) whom He (the Father) hath sent."  John 6:29  Christ said of the Holy Spirit, "for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak:" John 16:13

Burning Bush - post #598 Wrote:

I never said only His Spirit was risen.

Nevertheless, that's what it sounds like.

Since G-d the Father was IN CHRIST reconciling all men unto Himself, He was indwelling, as I said before, as the life everlasting.

You're still making it sound like you think Jesus is an empty husk with only the Father being the deity in Him. Jesus does what the Father does. Since God does not make other Gods, Jesus is God. John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And the scripture you used perfectly illustrates what I was sharing. Only begotten, means only one was begotten. [...] The invisible G-d desired visibility.

1) No. Only begotten means Jesus the Son of man possessed the same attributes, the exact nature of God. Jesus said, I do what the Father does. See As the Father references. 2) No. Our holy God desired to be reconciled to us sinners, sending Jesus to die for our sins, and now invites us to be reconciled to Him. 2 Cor. 5:20

Burning Bush - post #602 Wrote:

I think I covered this, as I am not Oneness. How can you NOT see that Christ is a Spirit? Hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Do you just think that meant because His flesh died on the cross? Paul knew His flesh died on the cross obviously, but Paul did meet a flesh Jesus, He saw NO MAN, only light, and that light is Christ. That Spirit is Who indwells us.

We don't know Christ as the Man who walked in Galilee, in His earthly ministry. He is the risen and ascended (bodily) Lord, at the Father's right hand. That is how we know Him, and how Paul and the others, who did know Him after the flesh, knew Him "from henceforth." You're still denying the risen Lord rose bodily, even though Paul himself confessed it.

Burning Bush - post #602 Wrote:

With all due respect Baptiste, by your own admission you do not have the baptism in the Spirit as evidenced with speaking in tongues, so how does that qualify you to say what is or is not of the Spirit you don't have, EXCEPT as an INWARD anointing of initial salvation experience?

BB, this section here is especially Satanic. It begins with a lie, and ends with blasphemy.

Burning Bush - post #602 Wrote:

That IS the Spirit of Truth that shall come and lead us into all Truth. It came on the day of Pentecost, it is a free gift just like salvation, and it comes to justify. The scripture says these things follow them that believe, they SHALL speak....... it doesn't say, if they want to, if they think it's legitimate, if they feel like it. It says, THEY SHALL. To be continued......

Well, do you do the whole nine yards?: Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Well, have you? I think it's safe to say you have not and neither have any who think like you. I know this for sure, because these are the signs given to the apostles, so that others would know their message was true. Go to Paul's chapter on the gifts and explain then to me why he seems to think that not all are given the gift of tongues, and why he places much lower importance on them than you do. Is the scripture inspired, or not?

Burning Bush - post #603 Wrote:

Part 2 continued.....

[...] The Baptism in the HG, is being baptized into Christ's glorified body, which is seated in the Heavenlies, ie. being baptized into His resurrection life. That's why it's a Holy GHOST, ie. a ghost is a spirit that lived in a body. A Holy Ghost, is one that lived in a holy body, ie. the body of the L-rd, Jesus Christ.

You are really overthinking this. All you have to do is take Jesus' word for it, that the Father and Jesus would send us the Holy Spirit. Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as a distinct Person, like He spoke of the Father and of Himself.

Burning Bush - post #603 Wrote:

The mind of Christ is appointed us in it's place, through the baptism in the HG that comes upon the HEADS, and it is this that begins to rend the veil of the flesh, that we can see Him as He is now, and be transformed into that image from glory (translated out of the kingdom of darkness/death of the carnal mind) to glory (and into the kingdom of light/Spirit life/ mind of Christ). Blessings....

Actually there is no glory at all in the "kingdom of darkness/death of the carnal mind", so your translation of the "glory to glory" verse is not accurate. Please refer to the one I offered a few posts back. I'm not sure why you need to see something on the heads, as the cloven tongues like as of fire as related in scripture was apparently only at Pentecost. The rest of the NT scripture does not tell of this, nor insist upon it as evidence of the Holy Spirit within the new believer. But we do have scripture to affirm that those who have believed have received the Holy Spirit and that He does the baptizing, the sealing, and the sanctification work in the believer.

John the Baptist said "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire", but the Pentecost account relates the cloven tongues were like as of fire. A case can be made that the fire John spoke of was perhaps judgment at His second coming. It may also refer to what Peter called the "fiery trial" that believers would undergo for their faith.

So I maintain that reliance upon the sensational for proof of anything doctrinal of theological is asking for trouble, since we have a more sure word of prophecy, as Peter by the Holy Spirit said.