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"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"  Ephesians 2:8

The Holy Spirit must indwell to save.  That means, the Holy Spirit is the One that has done this work of regeneration within us, baptizing us (identifying us) into Christ.  We are born again of the Spirit.  The Holy Spirit does not do this from a distance.  The Holy Spirit also seals us for guaranteed delivery to God.  The package is as good as delivered.  So we not only have salvation in the here and now, but we have assurance of acceptance in the Beloved (Eph. 1:6) after this life into eternity.  And there is no expiration.  What amazes me is that we not only will make it all the way home, but our salvation is sure for all eternity:  "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."  Eph. 2:7  That is how valuable the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ is to God.  It can only be had as a gift of God.  A ritual cannot obtain it, nor assist it.

Jesus asks, Do you believe on the Son of God?  John 9:35  Believe ye that I am able to do this?  Matt. 9:28  Water baptism publicly identifies us with Christ; but only the Holy Spirit can baptize us into Christ, which He does through faith God graciously gave us.  The Church cannot be in Christ without this work of the Holy Spirit.

Do not confuse this with the filling of the Holy Spirit, or the anointing of the Holy Spirit, or the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Sugar, That is not biblical...
and here is why....

For it is written:

Acts 8:14-17
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Clearly, there was beliefe and repentance in Samaria even unto water baptism... However, "For as yet " it is clearly seen here in scripture that the Holy Spirit had not filled any them the moment they believed...

Again, simply read and do as the apostils did in ACTS...
not as you wish they did...
And you will be Biblically saved/born again

Again,
Read Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:1-6 for specifics on how to trully be born again.

Man's spirit is renewed at the new birth through the work of the Holy Spirit inside your inner man; the real you.

Yes I believe that at the new birth the Holy Spirit births you into the kingdom spiritually. This often manifests with a strong conviction and often some obvious out workings as this spiritual experience overflows on the soul and body. Often the L-rd likes to confirm our salvation to the individual in some way. There is probably some sovereignty here but because I believe the L-rd is not a respecter of persons it must have more to do with the heart embrace of Christ (love, hunger) as well as the overflow from the servant sharing the gospel.

So I believe the Holy Spirit is in every born again believer... but the new birth is not the baptism (empowerment) for service. The Pentecostal experience is generally a separate event but it may be simultaneous. This anointing and experience... mysteriously hooks us up better to hear our spirit who in turn is in unity with G-d and hears G-d. It is through your spirit that a prophet generally hears the Holy Spirit.

You should read my post again for I feel you misunderstood me and took offense to what I wrote because you know I believe people should be part of a local church or associate themselves with people in the world that a really doing something for G-d. I understand you were hurt by religion in the JW cult but I BELIEVE in the church and group meetings.

I was changing the focus from the 'greedy preacher' to the 'blessing' for giving with the right heart where the name of Jesus is proclaimed. The accusation on the greedy preacher is to be proven and evaluated on an individual basis either by facts or the Holy Spirit.

The main point here is that those whom you and others will call greedy are the only ones doing anything in the world... people like Reinhard Bonnke, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, Morris Cerello... biblical quality attracts crowds in great quantity and often require large nets... I know the JW scriptures you will use to justify unruitfulness and I also read the deception warnings in the new testament and it is this justification for unfruitfullness disconnection that I call religion... else one would grow into a church.


I will not use any codes now...

"I love you - go in peace."

This was an illustration.

Does this mean you never came out of Egypt?

Will you withdraw a quote if you recognise it as silly?
Or should we be spiritual ignorants?

heheheh very clever
you would first have to preach faith regarding finances before I give
do you have paypal?

1Co 2:5 KJV  That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co 4:18-21 KJV Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.  (19)  But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.  (20)  For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.  (21)  What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Below is a GREAT example why I like Baptistic's theology and posts.

Still waiting for the paypal account though.

Baptistic you say : the Church is in Christ and does not inherit the Land

The church is a building of living stones

What I see is that The temple(church) is Christ
the living temple is inside us ,Christ spirit that works in us makes us a living temple,
Christ temple is not some building to who we go to every Sunday ore Sabbath to pray and sing ,no we our self are the living temple and god lives inside his temple .

1Cor3:16,17 Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, which you are.

1Pe2:5 You also, as "living stones", are built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Yeshua the Messiah.  

2Cor 6:16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”
6:17 Therefore

“‘Come out from among them,
    and be separate,’ says the Lord.
‘Touch no unclean thing.
    I will receive you.*
6:18 I will be to you a Father.
    You will be to me sons and daughters,’

says the Lord Almighty.


For through him we both(Jews and Gentiles ) have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones, and of the household of God,

And we grow into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit. Eph2;18-20

I agree so The holy spirit is the one that baptize us into Christ is just holy spirit baptize?


I know willby and steadfast would put water baptize as the means of salvation and not the work of the spirit that he does within.