JFJ Forums - Saved according to scripture--Get Saved!

sugarman Wrote:

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

prophet Wrote:

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Now ask youself; what are the new and better things?

The blood of the Perfect Lamb. Not having to be done every year as in the "old days"... but once and for all.

Quote:

The O.T. salvation is GREAT and eternal but the new has better things for those who make it.

There is only one plan of salvation, always has been, it hasn't changed. Since it was first told in Gen 3:15, and throughout the OT. And, frankly, baptism wasn't mentioned. Blood is our covering/atonement, not water.

Well Jesus was baptized in water.....Eunuch was baptized in water,Cornelieus' household was baptized in water,John's disciples were rebaptized in water(in Jesus Name)...if you aren't buried with Christ in baptism you aren't any of His

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized in 28:19(on which your whole trinity doctrine hinges on) and Peter gave the Name that was referred to in 28:19 the Holy Ghost speaking through him.

P.s. buried is a covered body(as in under water) not sprinkled on

I ASK THE question to prophet to.

if baptism is a figure of what saves us then that proves it does not literal saves us. if it literal then it will save us.

But by scripture how does peter put baptism literal or figure of what saves us?

Go ask your mother surgarman, when she tucks you in at night. Your waisting our time here.

now you are throwing personal attacks any more of this you will be reported.

why can you not easy the simple question if you are so wise?

My wisdom tells me that you are in need of the milk of the word, so like I said go ask your parents all these questions as you are clearly unable to comprehend information.

I am tired of your vain arguements that lead nowhere, even after you have been corrected. YOU like Ripley never acknowledge you obvious mistakes, you just keep flapping you lips and babble on against everything on this board. Niether one of you take the necessary time to search out what is being said here, you just argue and argue truth. I wish you would leave my postings alone as you are not teacheable.

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

prophet Wrote:

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Now ask youself; what are the new and better things?

The blood of the Perfect Lamb. Not having to be done every year as in the "old days"... but once and for all.

Quote:

The O.T. salvation is GREAT and eternal but the new has better things for those who make it.

There is only one plan of salvation, always has been, it hasn't changed. Since it was first told in Gen 3:15, and throughout the OT. And, frankly, baptism wasn't mentioned. Blood is our covering/atonement, not water.

Well Jesus was baptized in water.....Eunuch was baptized in water,Cornelieus' household was baptized in water,John's disciples were rebaptized in water(in Jesus Name)...if you aren't buried with Christ in baptism you aren't any of His

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized in 28:19(on which your whole trinity doctrine hinges on) and Peter gave the Name that was referred to in 28:19 the Holy Ghost speaking through him.

P.s. buried is a covered body(as in under water) not sprinkled on

I ASK THE question to prophet to.

if baptism is a figure of what saves us then that proves it does not literal saves us. if it literal then it will save us.

But by scripture how does peter put baptism literal or figure of what saves us?

Go ask your mother surgarman, when she tucks you in at night. Your waisting our time here.

now you are throwing personal attacks any more of this you will be reported.

why can you not easy the simple question if you are so wise?

My wisdom tells me that you are in need of the milk of the word, so like I said go ask your parents all these questions as you are clearly unable to comprehend information.

I am tired of your vain arguements that lead nowhere, even after you have been corrected. YOU like Ripley never acknowledge you obvious mistakes, you just keep flapping you lips and babble on against everything on this board. Niether one of you take the necessary time to search out what is being said here, you just argue and argue truth. I wish you would leave my postings alone as you are not teacheable.

here we go against boasting in our self.

what is our mistake? I believe baptism is a figure of what truly saves us. you believe it literal saves us.

instead of boasting just answer the question.

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

prophet Wrote:

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Now ask youself; what are the new and better things?

The blood of the Perfect Lamb. Not having to be done every year as in the "old days"... but once and for all.

Quote:

The O.T. salvation is GREAT and eternal but the new has better things for those who make it.

There is only one plan of salvation, always has been, it hasn't changed. Since it was first told in Gen 3:15, and throughout the OT. And, frankly, baptism wasn't mentioned. Blood is our covering/atonement, not water.

Well Jesus was baptized in water.....Eunuch was baptized in water,Cornelieus' household was baptized in water,John's disciples were rebaptized in water(in Jesus Name)...if you aren't buried with Christ in baptism you aren't any of His

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized in 28:19(on which your whole trinity doctrine hinges on) and Peter gave the Name that was referred to in 28:19 the Holy Ghost speaking through him.

P.s. buried is a covered body(as in under water) not sprinkled on

I ASK THE question to prophet to.

if baptism is a figure of what saves us then that proves it does not literal saves us. if it literal then it will save us.

But by scripture how does peter put baptism literal or figure of what saves us?

Go ask your mother surgarman, when she tucks you in at night. Your waisting our time here.

now you are throwing personal attacks any more of this you will be reported.

why can you not easy the simple question if you are so wise?

My wisdom tells me that you are in need of the milk of the word, so like I said go ask your parents all these questions as you are clearly unable to comprehend information.

I am tired of your vain arguements that lead nowhere, even after you have been corrected. YOU like Ripley never acknowledge you obvious mistakes, you just keep flapping you lips and babble on against everything on this board. Niether one of you take the necessary time to search out what is being said here, you just argue and argue truth. I wish you would leave my postings alone as you are not teacheable.

I tied of your boasting and puting your self higher over other people and not answer The question.

instead how figure is literal please?

your the one in the wrong.

prophet Wrote:

Ripley's Wrote:

Will you make up your mind....

You say baptise in Father SOn Holy GHost because Jesus commanded it...then you say not required because Paul didn't do it except in a few cases....Peter commands it in 2:38 but you say we should ignore it...all those including Jesus Himself got wet for nothing?...

You can boast all you want but if you haven't been buried with Jesus in baptism(AS PAUL SAYS) then you aren't any of His....Yes Jesus finished it on the cross...but we still have to be symbolically washed in the blood through baptism in water....That's God's command not mine.

As for adding....please show me the scripture where the Holy Ghost or the Father are ever referred to as persons or God is referred to as a person(outside of Jesus)....takes more faith to believe as you do than as Wilby and I do...we at least have scripture....you have Zero ...for references to Triune,Trinity...Three in one...3 persons or any reference to person hood prriod...your belief is all conjecture....or in Sugarman's case change scripture as written to fit trinity doctrine...

Prophte baptism is a command but not a command for salvation.

and really your should stop with because the word trinty or scripture does not say God is 3 person etc...

when many words that oneness words that scripture yours is not in scripture.

like the word oneness it self.

or God is a role player as you believe.

or this

The most common objection to the Trinity is that the doctrine employs nonbiblical terminology ("Trinity," "person," etc.). While this is true, it proves nothing. The word "Oneness" is not in the Bible, either; nor does the Bible ever call the Father or Holy Spirit "manifestations" of God. On another subject, the words "Bible," "canon," and "inerrancy" cannot be found in Scripture, either:

prophet I can play the word game to

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

Wilby Wrote:

sugarman Wrote:

prophet Wrote:

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Now ask youself; what are the new and better things?

The blood of the Perfect Lamb. Not having to be done every year as in the "old days"... but once and for all.

Quote:

The O.T. salvation is GREAT and eternal but the new has better things for those who make it.

There is only one plan of salvation, always has been, it hasn't changed. Since it was first told in Gen 3:15, and throughout the OT. And, frankly, baptism wasn't mentioned. Blood is our covering/atonement, not water.

Well Jesus was baptized in water.....Eunuch was baptized in water,Cornelieus' household was baptized in water,John's disciples were rebaptized in water(in Jesus Name)...if you aren't buried with Christ in baptism you aren't any of His

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

Jesus gave the commandment to be baptized in 28:19(on which your whole trinity doctrine hinges on) and Peter gave the Name that was referred to in 28:19 the Holy Ghost speaking through him.

P.s. buried is a covered body(as in under water) not sprinkled on

I ASK THE question to prophet to.

if baptism is a figure of what saves us then that proves it does not literal saves us. if it literal then it will save us.

But by scripture how does peter put baptism literal or figure of what saves us?

Go ask your mother surgarman, when she tucks you in at night. Your waisting our time here.

now you are throwing personal attacks any more of this you will be reported.

why can you not easy the simple question if you are so wise?

My wisdom tells me that you are in need of the milk of the word, so like I said go ask your parents all these questions as you are clearly unable to comprehend information.

I am tired of your vain arguements that lead nowhere, even after you have been corrected. YOU like Ripley never acknowledge you obvious mistakes, you just keep flapping you lips and babble on against everything on this board. Niether one of you take the necessary time to search out what is being said here, you just argue and argue truth. I wish you would leave my postings alone as you are not teacheable.

ripley you know what funny is after they been proven wrong or there mouth is left wide open from a question and the answer will disprove them they always refer to personal boasting and turn to I am more spiritual understanding then you etc.....

they just do not want to answer the question because they already know the answer and will not admit to it

Wilby,

It is quite obvoius from your posts that you cannot be open to see what others believe. Why must you insult others that do not believe the way you do?

There are many different beliefs within many different denominations. You know as well as anybody else that no one can be 100% sure. That is why it is called your "beliefs".

Riddiculing others because of their beliefs will win you no soldiers.

You may disagree with others, fine.

The correct way to offer your views would be to say:

"Let's just agree that we disagree"

I myself have been disrespectful a few times, but I have tried to apologize for it and if I haven't then I apologize now.

"A gentle answer turns away wrath but a harsh word stirs up anger. "

I have a question for the baptismal regeneration folks: Why was Yeshua baptized? Was he regenerated at his baptism?

The baptism argument can be resolved by simple logic.

If some verses say if you believe (have faith) you are saved and other verses say if you believe and are baptized you are saved, the logical conclusion is that faith is the only necessary component because the logical intersection of faith and faith plus baptism is faith.

F = S (faith results in salvation)
F + B = S (faith + baptism results in salvation)
F AND (F + B) = F (the intersection is Faith results in salvation)

Faith is the intersection of these two truths.  In math you would call it the lowest common denominator.  In logic, you'd call it the simplified logical expression (F = S).

Here's another illustration.  If I say I barrel of wheat is more than a pound and one barrel of wheat plus one bucket of wheat is more than a pound, what is the intersection?  One barrel of wheat is more than a pound - right?

There isn't a single passage that explicitly says you must be baptized to be saved.  There are passages that say if you believe you are saved and others that say if you have faith and are baptized you are saved.  But note, no passages say in order to be saved you must both believe and be baptized.   See what I'm saying?

If you had a passage that said you MUST BOTH believe and be baptized, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture because there is no intersection between the two statements.

F = S
F AND B = S
F AND (F AND B) = nothing - there is no intersection

Scripture is innerrant, so that's why the Scripture does NOT both say that if you have faith you are saved and also that you must have faith and be baptized to be saved.  That would be a contradiction and Scripture would be in error.  But you will not find a single logical error in Scripture.

Blessings in Messiah!

ThirdDay Wrote:

The baptism argument can be resolved by simple logic.

If some verses say if you believe (have faith) you are saved and other verses say if you believe and are baptized you are saved, the logical conclusion is that faith is the only necessary component because the logical intersection of faith and faith plus baptism is faith.

F = S (faith results in salvation)
F + B = S (faith + baptism results in salvation)
F AND (F + B) = F (the intersection is Faith results in salvation)

Here's another illustration. If I say I barrel ...right?

There isn't a single passage that explicitly says you must be baptized to be saved. ... See what I'm saying? Yes I do, you are lying!!

If you had a passage that said you MUST BOTH believe and be baptized, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture because there is no intersection between the two statements.

F = S
F AND B = S
F AND (F AND B) = nothing - there is no intersection

Scripture is innerrant, ...But you will not find a single logical error in Scripture.

Blessings in Messiah!/Christ!

1Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Having a good conscience toward God is to have your sins remitted.

There is no logic on this board, even you are not reading what I have posted about baptism, you are just spewing out your opinion and I could care less about opinions.

I have explained baptism from every angle and it is still falling on deaf ears. My goal is to get you saved, I want to be responsible for getting people saved yet I am shock at how damaged people's beliefs are have become from years of hearing false doctrines.

Gussing on salvation based on your logic is very scary and sad.

Like I have said before, the true meaning of believe has been lost. Everyone back then that believed got baptized or they weren't called believers. Believe and be baptized.

"If you had a passage that said you MUST BOTH believe and be baptized, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture because there is no intersection between the two statements."

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned. --means that if you are not baptized you will be damned.

Has Christ harden everyones heart to truth and salvation? Have all of you rejected His truth before as well as now?

Go to the beginning of this thread and read all my posts that is 'MY' posts, the posts before the disruptors ruined my thread. I explain the reason why and how when it comes to baptism.

I am saying it the way scripture is written and the way ALL the apostles preached salvation.

re: prophets post #70:

I haven't changed my mind.

Salvation is by faith ALONE. Once someone believes IN THEIR HEART, BEFORE EVEN SAYING A WORD, they are saved.

Baptism is something we do TO SHOW OUR NEW FAITH. SYMBOLIC OF OUR NEW MAN. It does not bring salvation, salvation brings it.

But you can't answer the question, can you? If BAPTISM *IS* SALVATION, why didn't Paul do it?

As for "person" the fact that pronouns and proper nouns are used of the Father and Holy Spirit, as well as emotions, actions, etc... show that they are "persons". Even you don't deny they are persons, you just think they are the same person...WHICH THE LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE DENIES.