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There exists a possibility that at least some Jewish people may have been at least partially responsible for the continuation of the Holocaust; and showing that some of the Jewish people possibly enabled the Germans is the late Herschel Grynszpan, who stood up to the Germans. Herschel Grynszpan showed what more Jewish people could've done; but because too many Jewish people went into hiding instead of being like Herschel Grynszpan and other Jewish people who stood up to the Germans, the Holocaust lasted for twelve instead of a maxium of five years; because Herschel Grynszpan killed a German named Ernst van Roth in 1938.

Had even more Jewish people been like Herschel Grynszpan, the Holocaust may not have even gone past 1933; but the enabling of the Germans isn't the only probable reason why the Holocaust lasted until 1945. Many Jewish people were not following Tanakh; and some probably even allowed or took part in persecuting patrilineal and Messianic Jewish people, who they considered "goyim". (Deuteronomy 28, Isaiah 29:13-14, Matthew 10, 24; Mark 7, 13).

I could humor your question by saying what good is it to kill Torquemada.

But actually, things like this probably upset Sheitle queen.  It is something we can't change, so don't torture your mind.

It is better to think about how we should handle Sederot or something like that.

People are already upset enough about this.

But then again, I don't want to be totally down on your comment.

I am impressed that an 18 year old is thinking about this and am glad to told me about one piece of the Holocause I didn't know about.

You need to thread carefully with this thread, Goy. I hope you realize that. I once heard David Brickner say the number of Messianic Jews who died in the holocaust and/or the extermination under Stalin or Lenin. My memory is a bit fuzzy on the details, but it was a huge number. Satan eliminated believers and unbelievers a like in the holocaust. (Remember 7 million goyim died in the camps too).

a lot of IF IF IF...
Yes a lot of Orthodox went into hiding, just also not to give the Germans a reason to fight the Jews. Maybe if more Jews had tried to be HERO's a larger part of the world agreed with Hitler that Jews are not proper citizens.

because Marinus van der Lubbe, tried to burn the 'Reichstag' a lot off country's didn't stood up for communists... etc.

If more Churches or Messianics wrote what the Germans did in the Namibian Concentrationcamps in 1904-1909, part of the effects of concentrationcamps could have been stopped.
if IBM stopped supporting the computers in the concentrationcamps, because the agents didn't want to go there anymore, some 'punktlichkeit'/precission could have been prevented.
If the U.S.A. didn't make the choice to NOT to bomb the Japanese concentrationcamps (where also German company Siemens was involved sideways), to get the medicall knowledge (read patentrights) after the war... A lot of Chinese lives and pain could have been saved. Even the doctors might have been trialed. But no, the U.S.A. agreed to leave the concentrationcamps for what it was...

BUT what does it mean...:   that if I hide myself for a Palestinian Bulldozerdriver, that I'm partly responsible for the deads he did couse afterwards...  Can you trial me for that??? O.K. if I have a gun I should do something...
But if we have a lot of fear: Jews didn't enter Israel whithin a year because of the fear of the Palestinians...  Therefore we are not responsible for the aggression of the Palestinians. But o.k. maybe we are in that sence responsible that it took 40 years. But at least HaShem is not blaming us hard for not having stand up against them.

So I agree, if a lot of Christians, slavedrivers and Jews had reacted earlier, than the Holocaust might not have past the camps in Namibia.

Besides that, MessianicJews where often in camps (deathcamps I don't know) better treated and sometimes freed by locals etc. I can't imagine so many persecution by Jews to Messianics in camps.... it might be that they ignored them.

Besides that during the war in the Chzech republic the Nazis didn't recognize converts to Christianity as Messianics... before 1933 yes, between 1933 and 1938 converts did it to be politicall correct.... and after 1938 it was politicall fleeing of being Jewish, so not considered Messianic.

The Katholic Church agreed with Hitler that prisoners could not be protected by the church anymore.
The Evangelicall Deutsche Christen-Church decided that all (half-quarter)Jewish-members where suddenly not welcome anymore in a lot of States... Christian-members where obliged to be member of the NSDAP.
So I think the Churches persecuted Messianics at least more then the Jews.

If the KKK not had there burning crosses and indians in camps... than the burning black cross = SS = Schwarze Sonne tradition also might have been less accepted....

Well at least some Jew wrote around 1903: ''But the Jews as Semites, racially different from the Aryans, could never amalgamate with them (Germany etc.), and were, therefore, a menace to national solidarity'' by:  Julius Hillel Greenstone...
as a commentary on lectures in the U.S.A. about German and American Aryanation around 1900.
Printed in Philidelphia 1906 Titel ''The Messianic Idea in Jewish History''.

Thanks for the info, it keeps me thinking at the moment. But to have started another BarKochba revolution or so in 1930 might have been a far bigger disaster.
The Germans knew to much, they used Egyptian idea's as Jewish police over other Jews. Took AmericanRussian writer Blavatsky's approach that Yethro (and Jesus I think) where Aryans... etc.

But Yes maybe because the U.S.A. went into hiding till pearl harbor, the Holocaust took longer... Who wants to blame them??? some do. But the main reason was oil, as nowadays... to go into war.  The Oil-boycot against Japan beforehand, and the same evening as pearl Harbour Dutch(Shell) declared war agains Japan...   If the oil was in Austria, maybe the U.S.A. and Ford had made the Holocaust longer???

Stalin and Lenin, as I would venture to guess, probably considered some Jewish Christians "goyim"; and even though Stalin and Lenin were Jewish secularists, they probably held at least a little to the idea of matrilineal-only Jewishness. I would also speculate that "some probably even allowed or took part in persecuting patrilineal and Messianic Jewish people, who they considered 'goyim';" because they didn't like Jewish Christians or anyone who was patrilineally Jewish, and may have wanted to sell out other Jewish people at least so that they wouldn't be used as though they were commodities by the Germans.

Oil is the least of the reasons for going into the War on Terror. Because of Islamic hatred of Jewish people like you and me (who is a patrilineally-Jewish woman, and at least 1/8 if not 3/16 Jewish), Muslims declared a war (in the Islamic religion, which was founded by a Yisma'eli, a jihad) on both Israel and the USA; and the American and Israeli governments had to either enlist our allies to help fight the Muslims, or become like two of our allies, England and France, who are having domestic issues with Muslims. Also, I would have elected Herbert Hoover over socalist and anti-Semitic governor Franklin Delano Roosevelt; and have a nickname for Social Security that I'm going to keep to myself.

I understand that you "don't want to totally down [my] comment," but by pointing that "things like this probably upset [Sheitl Queen]," you're putting what Sheitl Queen might think over holding some Jewish people accountable for enabling Germany, Chamberlin, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Many Jewish-American people could've protested when President Roosevelt didn't let in the S.S. St. Louis, and many Jewish-French people could've practiced civil disobedience and fought with Herschel Grynzspan, but many Jewish people went into hiding; and with few exceptions, hiding corners a person and makes them easier to find. Sometimes people need to hide, but only if Israel and the gentiles had done something earlier might the Germans have not been able to start the Holocaust.

I think we should also keep in mind that God will judge this nation, and spank PRIMARILY His children, for the Christians who have let it become the God-hating nation it is quickly becoming, without much protest AT ALL. (Do I see parades of Christians protesting? "A day without a Christian?" This secular humanist govt is this close to taking our children from us for our "polluting them with intolerance"...hardly a whimper from the Christian community. We seem to react after the fact, like the Jews you speak of, when it is too late. Like the proverbial frogs in a pot. The taking of children is already happening in other "Christian" nations, via homeschooling families not following UN "tolerance" teachings/curriculum. Not to mention the plethera of other problems we face.)

Are we (in effect) hiding rather than being heroic? Or worse yet, in denial? IMO, yes we are. And the literal hiding may indeed come, IMO.

I would prefer we have the heart of yound David and say, "for who [is] this uncircumcised Philistine (ACLU/Muslim Terrorists/homosexual activists, et al), that he should defy the armies of the living God? " and "Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield (and clever legal manuevers) : but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied." and finally, "And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle [is] the LORD'S, and he will give you into our hands."
-blue additions, mine-

We need to be very careful when we are casting stones, Goy. The church has much to repent from as well.

I personally do find this topic a difficult topic to read.
When I read this, to me it sounds like the victom is being blamed for being a victom of abuse. Knowing what occurred and the suffering and death, it isn't far from telling the rape victom the rape was their fault because they shouldn't have walked on that street, or they didn't fight the attacker off hard enough.

At the time of Hitlers rise to power, the Jewish population in Germany was about 550,000. The population of Germany was about 67 million. That's less then 1 % of the population of Germany.

In Russia, there were about 2 million Jews but they were in dire straits, and looking for a place to get away from severe persecution. German Jews and other Jews were trying to get the Russian Jews out of Russia when Hitler came to power.

In all of Europe, there were 9 million Jewish people (including those in trouble in Russia), scattered across about 26 countries. In any given country, the Jewish population was 1% or less of the total population.

In the U.S., there were about 1.5 to 2 million Jewish people (growing as Russian Jews were moving to escape persecution and some German Jews were starting to leave). The Jewish population in the United States was only about 2% to 3% of the total population, plus there was more anti-semitism in the U.S at that time.

Jews in America and all over the world were setting up underground activities to try to rescue anyone they could get out. And they were doing all they could to influence their governments to assist.

I read that Messianic Jews were even worse off. While there were about 15 million Jewish people, 9 million who needed to be rescued, and 6 million trying to do all they could, there might have been 100,000 Messianic Jews world wide, most in Europe and in harms way, and the Jewish community had their own priorities and problems. A Jewish missions group did their best to try to get some Messianic Jews out of Germany, and Europe to safety, but most Messianic Jews were lost to the Holocaust.