JFJ Forums

The Catholic Church is the Church set up by Jesus for the salvation of the world. The Protestant cults (and I include the Messianic "Judaism" in this) may love God, and God loves them, but He is not in their church nor has He given them authority to set them up. St Peter was the first pope of the Catholic Church and this has continued in process to this very day. It would have been inconceivable for Jesus to have guided His people throughout His life, but then left them orphans after His passing. That is why He gave St Peter the papal role and that is the reason St Peter was to pass on His papal authority in his later days. That is why we have the teachings of the infallible Catholic Church to guide her children. The Holy Father is God's representative here on Earth. He is the one who has the keys to Heaven and Hell, and his church shall prevail against all forms of persecution against her. Like the supreme court is the only authority for interpreting the US constitution, the Catholic Church is the only church allowed by Christ to interpret the Bible.

St Peter was appointed as head of the apostles when he recognized that Jesus was the Messiah. He was given prominance over the rest and He was promised that he would be head of His flock. Jesus said to him: "That thou art Peter [Kipha, a rock], and upon this rock [Kipha] I will build my church [ekklesian], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven". He was also told that when he was old that he would pass the authroity on to someone else(ie apolostic succession).

The women, who were the first to find Christ's tomb empty, received from the angel a special message for St Peter alone. It was him alone that Christ appeared the first day after the resurrection. Furthermore at the Lake of Genesareth, Christ renewed to Peter His special commission to feed and defend His flock, after Peter had three times affirmed his love for his Master.

The Catholic Church and her infallible teachings are the only way to God. The Bible came out of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church did NOT come out of the Bible. They have preserved her sacred tradition and have been more faithful to God's word than any protestant church. While some protestant churches like to sway God's word in order to appear modern and scientific, the Catholic Church continually insists that every jot of God's word is written and interpreted as God intended it to be. I cannot stress that enough. Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation. If you are in a false religion you need to repent and seek a priest that agrees with the infallible teachings of Christ's church and confess your sins to him. You must renounce your false religion before its too late.

Boy, if we actually listened to half of what Catholicism says, we would all go to hell. Whay? Because Roman Catholicism preaches a works based salvation. Rav Shaul and Shimon Kefa (who you call St. Peter) both preached Salvation by Grace through faith outside of works. You say that Roman Catholic Doctrine is infallible, but in fact the Vatican has been teaching directly AGAINST the scriptures themselves. They have done it ever since Constatine. The Pope is not the succesor of Peter but rather the successor of Constatine (The pagan who falsely converted). Before you spread Heresy and Lies, please first put in question almost everything you have been taught. Reorginize what you believe based on the Scriptures. NOT on the teachings of the Vatican.

Baruch HaShem Adonai Yeshua!!!!!!

Thou art Peter, but upon this "eben" will I build My Church.

Jesus said that the Church is His, not Peter's.  Peter himself says that "no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20).  Therefore, Peter himself denies your doctrine of papal interpretation over Scripture.

Eben is the word Jesus would have said in the original tongue before it was translated into the Greek, in the copy form extant today.

Eben is prophetically Alef followed by the word BeN.  This in interpreted as being the first letter of G-D's name: Elohim.  Alef is the Trinity of G-D in complex unity.  Thus, the interpretation of "eben" in the above context is not upon Peter, but upon the "Alef - BeN", upon "G-D's Son". There is only one Son, the Christ of the Living G-D, and that is the monogenes Theos, Jesus.  

The papal conspiracy did not begin until Victor the 13th Bishop of Rome issued his Praexas, after the writing of Irenaeus' work (which we loosely translate as "Against Heresies").

In 183 A.D., the text which puffed Victor up, before the Christian Churches of the Empire shouted him down, was this:

"It is within the power of all, therefore, within every Church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the tradition of the Apostles manifested throughout the whole world...

[that is, those who wish to find a common gathering place of convenience, since in 183 A.D., Jerusalem was no longer an option -- might come to Rome and see that the common testimony that all the Apostles preached every where from which they ecumenically hail, with the same common message.  In other words, it wasn't via the bishop of Rome, it was via the emissaries of the various Christian Churches throughout the Roman Empire.]

{Next is a new translation of the latter part that follows}
For it is a matter of pragmatic business that every Church should come from all directions, in every way, to gather in this principal city [of Rome], that the truth might be preserved as it was entrusted them."
(Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.1.1.)  

For further recommended reading, I suggest that you read Tertullian, Against Praexas, .1, .28, .29, and find that the first Protestant split was not with Luther, it was with Caius and others some time between 185 - 190 A.D.  Therefore, if there was no pope in 183 A.D., there was no papacy in A.D. 55 when Peter was de facto in Rome.  Jerome, when he invokes the L-RD's passion, hold true to this.  When he does not invoke the L-RD's passion, he fabricates in regards to Peter's arrival and departure.  Examine this in his work, "On Illustrious Men".  

Jesus said that He is the way and the Truth and the Life.  If any gathering or synagogue was ever a way to G-D, he would have said so.  He calls those who put the Catholic Church in place of solely Him and the Cross, as "thieves and robbers."  Have you any biblical writings to prove otherwise?  Have you either Old or New Testament Scripture, or definitive pre-230 A.D. extra-biblical historical witness?  

The tree is known by it's fruit. Enough said.

Peace to you.

Christopher
Gentile Christian
Infant Baptism November 1970
Berlin Germany
Informed Baptism February 2005

The Catholic Church is the Church set up by Jesus for the salvation of the world. Not true Jesus did not set up The catholic  church People came about in the later some hundred of years and made it

The Protestant cults (and I include the Messianic "Judaism" in this) may love God, and God loves them, but He is not in their church nor has He given them authority to set them up. They are not cults but a diff sect just like you are so I can say the same to you as being in cult. God is not limited his power to only catholics he also gives authority to others to build churchs The first were Jewish not anything cathoolic are what they believe in major.


St Peter was the first pope of the Catholic Church and this has continued in process to this very day. Also not true this is a teaching from Catholci douement not BIBLICAL doument.


t would have been inconceivable for Jesus to have guided His people throughout His life, but then left them orphans after His passing. That is why He gave St Peter the papal role and that is the reason St Peter was to pass on His papal authority in his later days.  Can you plz back that up by the bible? No cathlic doument that the rule.


That is why we have the teachings of the infallible Catholic Church to guide her children. The Holy Father is God's representative here on Earth. He is the one who has the keys to Heaven and Hell, and his church shall prevail against all forms of persecution against her. Like the supreme court is the only authority for interpreting the US constitution, the Catholic Church is the only church allowed by Christ to interpret the Bible.

Infallible hardley I can list things that they  believe that is not even bilbical. They believe in praying to saints God forbids that He wants people tp pray to Him as he says in the Ot. The


the Catholic Church is the only church allowed by Christ to interpret the Bible. Not true God does not limited understand of scripture to one sect of christianty. You cant even prove that with the bible The catholic church is the only one that can intepet the bible.

He was promised that he would be head of His flock. Jesus said to him: "That thou art Peter [Kipha, a rock], and upon this rock [Kipha] I will build my church [ekklesian], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven". He was also told

let look at this verse more close

Matthew 16:18 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
A Public Domain Bible KJV at Zondervan Zondervan

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

No one in that verse peter is called The rock. History in the ot always apply The rock being God.  

Now let me ask you a question do you uddestand what a cult is? it where you cant read for your self manly catholic doumemt goes againts that. You need somone to tell you what it means without you useing your own judgment. Somone telling you this is true and this is not is a cult. Also in a cult you cant read things by your self you always in a group and The master of the cult tells you what it means. There not one trace of catholic teaching in Jesus time. The catholic church is not the way to God. Jesus is the only way jew or gentile Jesus dont care if your protest or anything. Only if you believe Jesus is the messiah and belleive on him have him in ya life you are saved.

jesus is who we pray to for things  safety not saints. Jesus said ask in MY NAME and my father will do it. basic a cult is where you can not make up your own mind. I judge the spirts as God commandents dont take anything face value God says and The catholic church is in error.

[b]Dear friend, all scripture is inspired by God.  All things (including principalities and powers, Israel, the nations, and the Church) were made by Him (the Lord Jesus Christ [Messiah]), and "without Him was not made anything that was made."  The formed and called Bride did not make the eternal Word of God.

However comparisons of faithfulness can be made among the branches of those professing Jesus Christ, none can say they are 100% faithful.  That is why we need Jesus (Y'eshua) today, because He is 100% faithful, and true, and righteous.  We can have the righteousness of God in Christ (Messiah).  We don't deserve to make that claim apart from the infalliability of His Word which shows the love and grace of God to us while we were yet sinners.

Our ever living great High Priest is up there right now making intercession for us.  "Neither is there salvation is any other..."

God bless you as you consider these things.

because you rap the catholic church they give you three stars?

im am catholic and i dont fall for your for your con artistry.  your non catholic christian theology mislead christians into thinking that they are saved no matter what they do.

when the voice of tempttion bears down on a 'saved' soul, the strengh of the resistance to sin is weakened by the theology. that is to say in many cases, that a person will provre less resistant to temptaion knowing that he is saved ehether he sins or not so why not do the sin? .

the catholics believe that martin luther teaches heresy and it make sense that he does because this 'saved by baptism' stuff is not supported in scripture.  
baptism remoevs the original sin tht blocks all men. one must be perfect to enter the kingdom and martin luther is correct only when one is baptised and then never sins. a soul must maintain a state of grace to be saved. to do that, you need good works and the sacrament of atonement. the blemish of the sin now must be remove to regain the state of cleanliness.  this is done by an admition that you sinned,(not an excuse) and an act of contrition, (you tell god you are sorry). the church has ritualized this process and this replaces the old jewish atonement practices.

this is from the jews' old law  and non catholic christians dont have atonement considerations.  this is one reason i go with the catholics. where is the atonement aspect of the faith in christian judaism or in non catholic christianity?

john 3:16 says that god gave his only son as a sacrifice so that we MIGHT BE SAVED, NOT THAT WE ARE SAVED OR WILL bE SAVED,

satan is a reality. he was an archangel and has great power and great knowledge pf evil.  he hides because he knowa that if he lets you see him, you will be scared into the arms of salvation. he knows that he cannot stop the christian movement or the spread of the gospel so he corrupts it so that the truth look-alike spreads its own disease. he puts poision in the breakfast.  he contaminateds the sterile field. martin luther was a pope wannabe and his theology was more popular than the truth. he was a tool of satan.

its satans trap for those who come up out of the bottomless pit of agnostcism.

doesnt anyone find it strange that peter means rock in greek??? if jesus wanted you to understand that he is the rock, then why would he throw in the 'monkey wrench?  

its hard to deny that jesus is a rock, and certainly he is the cornerstone of the new temple,. but a cornerstone is laid on a foundation. and peter was chosen for that purpose.

if peter was alive today, he would tell you that man does not live by bread alone and nor does he live  by faith only. you must believe on the WHOLE name which is the word of yahweh which is jesus' word gospel. jesus is the word who said:

"thou are peter, (the rock). and upon this rock i will build my church.  so if jesus tells us that we must live by every word, and THAT word of god is flowing water in which we are baptised, we must honor it and ask ourselves, "from where does this river flow"?

i tell you it flow from the temple which is above the firmament and below it. iit flows down from the holy gospel mountain jerudalem and into the land of new israel.

peter was given the septer!  what does it mean?  if peter is not the rock here then, why does jesus say to him, "whateer YOU bind is bound and whatever YOU loose is loosed", that is the same authority as like given to moses. moses wrote tha law and it was binding.  even jesus kept the law because he had not yet received the septer from his father.

how can peter, who has the authority to make the law and change the law, be dissed away so easily?  ( because they want to be saved but they dont want to work for it) you  say that you are accepting jesus but you lie. you are not accepting jesus when you deny his church. you are accepting only the part you want. you are a lukewarm believer and it is written of the 'lukewarm'  "i will vomit thee from my mouth."

one has to show where the septer was taken frm peter and given to...well??????.. whoever you non catholic believers think has it.

some will say that all christianity is the temple but revelations denies this. the woman in chapter 12 is standing on the moon. well, we know that a 'moon' in ancient script is a sect of jews, when johns use of the term reveals that the woman is standing on the temple ot the catholics. this is true because no other moon of christianity or any other faith will support mary. the catholic church is under her feet to show you that this moon is the catholic sect. it alone honors her and support her .  she is the woman. and if you doubt this, reread the miricle at cana in the gospel of matthew,

"woman, what would you have me do"

notice here that jesus does not say, "what do you request", and she doesnt answer and tells the servants tells the servants to do what jesus says.

everywhere that mary went, the lamb was sure to go. (yea father, thou hast revealed the secrets of the kingdom of god to children)


the moon is not from the earth and neither is it it heaven. it shines/reflects the light of the sun down on the earth into the darkness,when the son is away. the twelve stars are the apostles because stars are saints.  stars are not a tribe.  yahweh is not the s-n mentioned here that the woman is clothed with.

martin luthers form of christianity is simple. get baptized and do nothing. or you dont have to do anything. salvation is yours. you like that. it easy. you dont want to believe that you must do more or maybe your afraid to invest into the church for losing ehat you have.

diss and diss the catholic church but all your propagations wont make a lie into the truth.



what did you think? the woman is israel?  how does she give birth to a single male child that is taken up to heaven?  jesus was taken up and we are still here.

what does john telling us when he says that satan goes off to persecute her children.  this is christian scripture. if the woman was israel and the children are israel, and the 12 stars are tribes israel, then john is telling us that michael the archangel is protecting judaists.

non catholic interpretation rev 12 is funky

[quote=Warrior of Yeshua]
Boy, if we actually listened to half of what Catholicism says, we would all go to hell. Whay? Because Roman Catholicism preaches a works based salvation. Rav Shaul and Shimon Kefa (who you call St. Peter) both preached Salvation by Grace through faith outside of works. You say that Roman Catholic Doctrine is infallible, but in fact the Vatican has been teaching directly AGAINST the scriptures themselves. They have done it ever since Constatine. The Pope is not the succesor of Peter but rather the successor of Constatine (The pagan who falsely converted). Before you spread Heresy and Lies, please first put in question almost everything you have been taught. Reorginize what you believe based on the Scriptures. NOT on the teachings of the Vatican.

Baruch HaShem Adonai Yeshua!!!!!!

dear warrior for satan.

jesus is a liar. he said, "and the gates of hell will not prevail against it"

so you say that constantine prevailed?

the church went thru some dark ages and the woman was taken up to a safe place for a time. but she is return and satan did not prevail.

the pope is as infallible as moses. you tell me how infallible is that?

you dishonor the lord and defile his name when you say that he founded a church that satan prevailed over. what kind of god can jesus be to let his church fall to satan?  not a very strong one. how can i rely on his salvation when he  cant save his own church?

you see? you are funky. you go from a funky rabbi to a funky minister.
you crawled out of the pit and fell into the trap.

you say the nebbuchannezer had the jews captive in babylon and i say he protected the remnant as god willed it.  you say that constantine prevailed over the church and i say that gos willed it.  it doesnt matter what constantine was or wasnt. it mattered that what is done is done of the will of god. in my mind he is not defiled because i know that his word is true and he alone is god. he alone is the lord.  who will steal away the breath of the lord god?

they did not prevail. and neither will any of you martin luther type critics. do you think it fashionable to bash the church or do you actully believe your own hype? how do you know if constantine was sincere or not?

you cant know and so you speak frivolous.  do you believe in god?

Dan i agree with what you said 100% im a catholic myself

Dear Dan. I am a Catholic Christian just as your self. However I think that by your way of proceeding in here you are causing much confusion and damage. The last prayer of Jesus was one about Unity. The Lord wishes unity. How to unite? Humility.. love.. To bend. Lower your voice so you may hear the voice of your Saviour. The Lord will take care to unite us when we repent of our pride and ill feeling against our fellow Christians. Please, all consider how the world would look at the Christian Faith if we would all stand together in stead of fighting each other and thereby serving satans plans.
   You write: "Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation". My friend. I have recently read a book on Catholic teaching where it was firmly stated that to hold such a position is against the Catholic faith. When a Catholic priest started publishing such opinions some years ago in a Catholic news paper he was, as a matter of fact, excommunicated by the Church. The opinion which you voice is therefore not church doctrine and you are doing so much damage here.
I am a Catholic, as I said, but I praise the Lord and pray with my brothers and sisters in the protestant churches. I am not afraid of worshipping with them.. I have also worshipped in Jerusalem with Messianic jews. Why not? I am not afraid. I see that the Holy Spirit is not shying away from these sisters and brothers but that He works wonders in their lives as they live humbly with the Lord. Should I then be as proud as to say no to their company? I will certainly not. We love each other and do not condemn anyone. As Peter says in the Gospel: "Now I know that God does not differentiate between people but from every people receives the one who fears him and is righteous.." (I write this from memory only). The pentacostal protestants have especially taught me a great deal as well as the catholics have a great deal to teach them.. especially about the Eucharist. We must all be humble enough to confess that we all need one another. What can we honestly say that we have gained by our selves? Nothing.. everthing is by the grace of God. How can a body breathe with one lung or sufficiently work if the limbs are at war with each other. Jesus is the Church. He is the Body. Now will you soothe His wounds or will you drive the nails deeper into His Hands?
To Warrior of Yeshua. I love you dearly and I always love zealousness as well but be carefull lest you turn out to be a warrior for the divider alias the demon. Yes, my words applies to you too. Who has appointed you a judge? I am asking you to reconsider whether you think you are speaking as a Christian or not. I thank God I live in place where people work together for the Kingdom of God instead of fighting against each other and scattering where our beloved Jesus has tried so long to gather.
God is love! Amen.  MARANATHA, Come Jesus.
Yours in Christ.
Katarina <><