Controversial Issues in Messianic Judaism has one goal: To stimulate discussion on the subject of Messianic Judaism beyond the scope of what is normally acceptable. A number of subjects have become off-limits within the complicated world of Messianic Judaism and we find this intellectually dishonest and damaging to the movement. We ask the hard questions and offers possibilities.
Examples please...
Judaism always had room for discussion, even if it looks like off limit....
Mainly 'German'kind of Jews want hard questions and possibilities... but that is a cultural thing... Southern Jews mainly can handle different opinions next to each other...
So what is off-limit here???
Examples please...
Judaism always had room for discussion, even if it looks like off limit....
Mainly 'German'kind of Jews want hard questions and possibilities... but that is a cultural thing... Southern Jews mainly can handle different opinions next to each other...
So what is off-limit here???
In Messianic Judaism; so many issues are either very controversial to the point of causing so much division that self-hating Jewishness could be followed, or the controversial issues become off limits. For example:
- Does "Talmud-Chazal" still apply; or are only TaNaKh and Brit Chadashah the Scriptures and the mitzvot by which Jewish and gentile Christians live?
- Who is really Jewish? Does matrilineal, patrilineal, or matrilineal and patrilineal Judaism apply?
- Should a Jewish Christian follow all 613 mitzvot-Moshe, or only the requirements in Acts 15?
- Is Elohim a One-in-Three or Three-In-One Triunity?
Blessings to you Beshem Adon Melech Ha Moshiach (Y'shua) and may Ha Kadosh Baruch Hu (Hashem) bring us Shalom v Chessed.
According to Orthodoxy there is 3 reasons why all contemporary movements in Judaism are not kosher:
Brit Milah
Mikveh
And Torah is binding from Sinai
The Reform, Reconstructivist and Conservative in one way or another disregard these or modify them.
There are Messianics that believe that the Torah is binding and are willing to partake of both the Written Law (i.e. Torah She Biktav) which is certainly at the heart of this revelation, but also the expository directives, derivations, and methodology for adapting and developing Jewish law known as the Oral Law (Torah She’Ba’al Peh). Some would like to go further than cultural Judaism, and partake of the halachic definition of being a Jew (For that is the classical way of being a Jew historically).
A Rabbi once told me that to be Jewish you don't only have to consider yourself Jewish you must be identified by the Jewish community also. This being the case right now not even a the child of orthodox parents who follows Y'shua in a small way is consider Jewish by the Jewish community.
In the next post I will deal with ways that different groups have tried to tackle this issue. Please share your thoughts...
A Rabbi once told me that to be Jewish you don't only have to consider yourself Jewish you must be identified by the Jewish community also.
Let me start off with the fact that I am not Jewish, not a Messianic jew either, but a gentile Christian.
With that said, I can understand why the Rabbi told you that, but Israel does not define His People; He does. They are the clay, He is the Potter, not the other way around. Many times He has called them Lo' `Ammiy ("not my people"), because of their unfaithfulness despite their blood/genes.
So, in short, I would care more about what YHWH thinks than what people think.
Those who do not indentify themselves with the Author of the Law, the Redeemer of Israel, their very
purpose, and the apex of their existence, Y'shua, are not
His people, regardless of whether or not they are of Jewish lineage.
I leave the rest of it for Messianic Jews to discuss. I pray that you to find what you are seeking, I know the struggle even as a gentile believer. We only want to please our God and be a light to the world: our families, communities, etc.
So far I have encountered three new trains of though among messianics. One claims that the “Messianic Movement” is as legitimate of a moment as other historical groups within Judaism, this allows for them to perform so called “conversions”. The leaders of the Rabbinical Messianic Council claim that some one can call themselves Messianic Jewish as much as someone call themselves a Humanist Jew because they are recognized by their own community, and will never be recognized by the official 15 Rabbinical Courts anyway.
Another perspective expounded by Tim Hegg and FFOZ is that the Apostolic Judaism of which they subscribe to (the term is problematic for it separates the disciples from the Jewish framework they lived in) stands between Orthodox Judaism and Christianity. They claim that in a revolutionary way they hold to Torah and Yeshua compared to the other two who only have either/or. In a very simplistic way they proclaim this and do not confront the issues that arise from the Torah for all perspective they spouse. FFOZ has already dealt with many who have actually forsaken Moshiach based on the logical fallacies.
The Jerusalem Council claims that Messianism is a sect of Judaism being the same expression of Jewish life as the original Nazarean followers of the Meshiach. They not only re-interpret the Apostolic writings, but detached from historical reality embrace every believer as joining the sect and by default becoming Jewish within the parameters of that sect of Judaism. This out-of-the-norm perspective which redefines what constitutes being a Jew.
I feel that these ideas are problematic and do not address the reality that Jews (who have the revelation of Meshiach) face everyday.
The thing that these groups have in common is that they separate themselves from Traditional Judaism without knowing or understanding it that well to begging with and redefine concepts to make their interpretations work. They deal with the Revelation of Meshiach by starting groups that claim to restore all things to the former glory, rewriting history or they disregard 2000 years of Jewish thought and practice.
I feel that these ideas are problematic and do not address the reality that Jews (who have the revelation of Meshiach) face everyday.
I can only imagine your difficulties, I don't face the same kind of problems
entirely. I do have to defend my faith to unbelivers, but it is not the same, I understand that.
But remember what Jesus said, "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you." John 15:18
Can you imagine the deep pain He felt when He wept for Jerusalem? His
chosen rejecting Him. I think you can relate to that more than I can.
My continued prayers for you and my Jewish brothers/sisters worldwide.
There are Messianics that believe that the Torah is binding and are willing to partake of both the Written Law (i.e. Torah She Biktav) which is certainly at the heart of this revelation, but also the expository directives, derivations, and methodology for adapting and developing Jewish law known as the Oral Law (Torah She’Ba’al Peh). Some would like to go further than cultural Judaism, and partake of the halachic definition of being a Jew (For that is the classical way of being a Jew historically).
Dani'el, patrilineal Jewishness is more historical than matrilineal Jewishness. Before Yitzchak-ben-Avraham, there were no Jewish or gentile people; even though there were Hebrews and non-Hebrews, and Yisma'el-ben-Avraham-vi-Hagar was patrilineally Hebrew.
Yitzchak-ben-Avraham was the child of the promise, and the first Jewish man because of being the child of the promise. Yitzchak had gentile parents, married a gentile, and had patrilineally-Jewish sons. Ya'akov-ben-Yitzchak became Yisra'el and had twelve patrilineally-Jewish sons, and two of the sons each had matrilineally-gentile sons.
There are Messianics that believe that the Torah is binding and are willing to partake of both the Written Law (i.e. Torah She Biktav) which is certainly at the heart of this revelation, but also the expository directives, derivations, and methodology for adapting and developing Jewish law known as the Oral Law (Torah She’Ba’al Peh). Some would like to go further than cultural Judaism, and partake of the halachic definition of being a Jew (For that is the classical way of being a Jew historically).
Dani'el, patrilineal Jewishness is more historical than matrilineal Jewishness. Before Yitzchak-ben-Avraham, there were no Jewish or gentile people; even though there were Hebrews and non-Hebrews, and Yisma'el-ben-Avraham-vi-Hagar was patrilineally Hebrew.
Yitzchak-ben-Avraham was the child of the promise, and the first Jewish man because of being the child of the promise. Yitzchak had gentile parents, married a gentile, and had patrilineally-Jewish sons. Ya'akov-ben-Yitzchak became Yisra'el and had twelve patrilineally-Jewish sons, and two of the sons each had matrilineally-gentile sons.
GoyOfYeshua....
If Jesus and Paul started to claim:
patrilineal Jewishness is more historical than matrilineal Jewishness
Than both of them where not Jewish, according to their own opinion...?
So when did one of both historicall claims (materlineal or patrilineal) started or stop...?
For me also it's hard to find proof. One Liberal Jew asked me more or the less the same last week.