JFJ Forums

I've proven that I'm a patrilineally-Jewish woman, and the 613 mitzvot were given in Torah; and you, "Faith", are either attributing what is of the G-d of Israel to Maimonides (and vice versa), blaspheming Elohim-Yisra'el, or blaspheming Elohim-Yisra'el by attributing what is of the G-d of Israel to Maimonides (and vice versa).  

Maybe because they were anti-Semitic in origin? Maybe because they have nothing to do with the Bible? Maybe because they are traditions of men that contradict scripture (Easter especially)?

You don't HAVE TO, but why would you want ot endorse such things? ESPECIALLY with your Jewish lineage?

Just like there is a differemce in Jewishness and Judaizing, there is also a difference between Gentileness and Romanizing. Christmas and Easter (especially) are ROMAN not Gentile.

Can not all be redeemed for the glory of the God of Israel? Y'rushalayim was a goyisch city before Moshe and the other Adom-Yisra'el entered Canaan. Also, inasmuch as Christmas and Easter are "(especially)...ROMAN not Gentile," your Judaizing is actually of the Parushah nature not Jewish.

Please explain your understanding of the difference between "Roman" and "Gentile".  Thanks.

As much as GOD ALONE can redeem things that others meant for evil, *we* are not called to disobedience in order that obedience come from it.

Sorry, that's a stretch.

The stretch in regards to redemption and disobedience by celebrating a holiday is on your part. Also remember that Y'rushalayim was once a pagan city.

There were many gentiles from all areas of the world practicing Christianity. That would be what I call "gentile". All non-Jews everywhere. For the purpose of the discussion here, "gentile" means gentile believers, as opposed to unbelievers.

Included in that gentile world is Rome. However, many of the (extra-biblical, at best, and anti-biblical, at worst) customs we now follow are uniquely Roman and via the political and military power of the Holy Roman Empire their customs were forced on the rest of the church.

See my posts 5 & 6 for more detail.

Or you may read the lengthy debate I had with a RC brother in "Hebrew Catholics" beginning with his post #190 where we get into several different topics.

To me, RCC is "modern Christianized Talmudism". And I think it is worth taking a look at how what we do now differs from what the Apostles did and taught, and how we got here.

1 Thes. 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

Jesus was sacrificed on 14th of Nisan. No other day. We know it specifically. The most important day of all the history of mankind.

You want to follow anti-Semitic edicts, go ahead.

Doing something in ignorance is one thing. Knowing better and honoring an anti-biblical day, with hate as it's root, is another.

Your choice.

Hi Ripley!

I just came across this thread today...

How do you decide which Jewish laws we should keep (for sanctification and/or to be a good witness to unsaved Jews) and which ones we should not?  Just the 10 commandments + a partial observance of the feasts?  Why not all 613 laws, why not just the ones that Yeshua holds us to, ...?  I'm just trying to feel out where you're coming from.  It seems to me that you're suggesting that obeying the laws of Israel has some sanctifying power, which I don't understand yet.  

The Sinai laws were added due to transgression for a people who refused to keep the simple basic laws for humanity G-d had already given.  These added laws were a means to an end (to keep stiff-necked Israel in line and set apart) - not an end in of themselves - right?  Y'all are probably tired of my recommendation, but I'll offer it again anyway - check out Dr. Sailhamer's book "The Pentateuch as Narrative".  It's a wonderful discourse on the law in the Law (Torah).

My view is that we gentiles aren't morally obligated to keep anything in the Tanakh that was given to Israel only.  Instead we are to obey the laws Yeshua gave to all believers + the law of conscience.  And I would say that 9 of the 10 commandments fall into that category, but we must keep them because Yeshua and our conscious says so, not because G-d gave them to Israel at Sinai.  Regarding the Sabbath law (among the other 10) - I think you'd agree that its purpose was to point us to our need to trust and rest in G-d's provision, in particular in His provision of eternal life (in Yeshua).  Isn't that what Eve and all of sinful mankind since has failed to do?  So in that sense, we are morally obligated to keep all 10 commandments, but again not because they were written in stone at Sinai, but because they are innately written on the hearts (conscious) of all mankind - whether they listen to them or not.  That is how even the Pigmy in Africa who never heard the gospel will be judged.

I see no value in keeping the form of the shadows like the Sabbath (literally no work on Saturday) since Yeshua has arrived - that is unless instead of not working, you spend the day remembering Yeshua's work for us.  But if we do that, we aren't really strictly keeping the Jewish Sabbath, rather we are keeping what the Sabbath pointed to.  And to say we're keeping the Sabbath would be confusing to Jewish people - worse yet they would accuse us of trickery and deception.

I do think celebrating the feasts by celebrating what they pointed to is great though.  They are beautiful pictures of the work of Messiah.  Messianic sedars, sukkot celebrations, etc. are excellent.  But we should be careful not to give the impression we are actually keeping the Torah prescribed laws regarding those feasts.  Anyway, that's my 2 cents.  

What are your thoughts on why it is good to keep the Jewish law?

Blessings in Messiah!