JFJ Forums - Proof That I'm Patrilineally Jewish

chow_woman Wrote:

1) Why do YOU WANT to consider yourself Jewish?

Do Romans 1:16 and 3:1-10 ring a bell?

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2)Who else's opinion of your Jewishness (or non-Jewishness) do you CARE about?

You, for example, accused me of pretending to be Jewish.

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3) What would you have to CHANGE to be recognized as Jewish (or not) by the people in Question 2?

I couldn't change anything, especially if they follow traditions of man over Tanakh.

Yetzirah231 Wrote:

Thanks, GoyOfYeshua.

Sounds indeed interesting.
So you have some Jewish blood, and by that you feel Jewish, Great. For the rest I just don't know. it might be hard to proof it to the Rabbi's like this. King David, and others also had to proof that they where Jewish at the Rabbi's...
but I don't know about Poland. In Holland and the Czech Republic etc. there where intermarriages a few hundred years ago. Not so much but it did happen.

Good keep the papers, it's nice to have them I think.

Having the papers, or copies thereof in my case, is a blessing; but I can prove that Julius Czarnecki was Jewish beyond that Julius had Jewish parents. For example, I mentioned that Julius became a Jewish Catholic, and Alexandria may have had his burial site removed from their local Roman Catholic cemetery. My great-granduncle John Felix adopted his dad's faith and traditional Jewish religious practices as his own, which included marrying a Jewish woman and being buried within about 24 hours after his death:

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Times Leader, The (Wilkes Barre, PA)

May 17, 1995

Section: NEWS
Page: 7A

JOHN CZARNECKI MAY 15, 1995 JOHN F. CZARNECKI, 81, OF MAIN STREET, DALLAS, DIED MONDAY IN MERCY HOSPITAL, WILKES-BARRE.

Article Text:

John Czarnecki

May 15, 1995

John F. Czarnecki, 81, of Main Street, Dallas, died Monday in Mercy Hospital,

Wilkes-Barre Born in Sugar Notch, he was the son of the late Felix and Alexandra Andrulevich Czarnecki.

He had lived in Dallas for the past 40 years. Prior to his retirement, he was self-employed as a barber, with his shop in Dallas. He was a member of Gate of Heaven Church in Dallas and was a member of its Holy Name Society.

He was preceded in death by his wife, the former Jennie Ulawski, in 1962...A Mass of Christian Burial will be held at 10:30 a.m. today in Gate of Heaven Church, Dallas, with the Rev. David P. Cappelloni officiating. Entombment will be in Mount Olivet Cemetery, Carverton, Kingston Township. There will be no calling hours.

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

chow_woman Wrote:

1) Why do YOU WANT to consider yourself Jewish?

Do Romans 1:16 and 3:1-10 ring a bell? I can always count on you for a Bible drill, eh? Soooooooooo....Goy, you are already a believer so why are you citing Romans 1:16 if you already have salvation or Romans 3 in which the passage you cited concludes there there is NONE righteous, no, not one. How does that profit you individually that you want to consider yourself Jewish so badly?

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2)Who else's opinion of your Jewishness (or non-Jewishness) do you CARE about?

You, for example, accused me of pretending to be Jewish. So you CARE about MY opinion and the opinion of other people in this forum. When you get a little older, you won't care. Don't you have a better reason?

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3) What would you have to CHANGE to be recognized as Jewish (or not) by the people in Question 2?

I couldn't change anything, especially if they follow traditions of man over Tanakh. The question doesn't ask what would you change about someone else, it asks what would you change (about yourself) to be recognized as .... by the people in #2. In other words, what would you change about yourself in order to be recognized as Jewish by (apparently) those you care about here in the Forum?

chow_woman Wrote:

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

chow_woman Wrote:

1) Why do YOU WANT to consider yourself Jewish?

Do Romans 1:16 and 3:1-10 ring a bell? I can always count on you for a Bible drill, eh? Soooooooooo....Goy, you are already a believer so why are you citing Romans 1:16 if you already have salvation or Romans 3 in which the passage you cited concludes there there is NONE righteous, no, not one. How does that profit you individually that you want to consider yourself Jewish so badly?

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2)Who else's opinion of your Jewishness (or non-Jewishness) do you CARE about?

You, for example, accused me of pretending to be Jewish. So you CARE about MY opinion and the opinion of other people in this forum. When you get a little older, you won't care. Don't you have a better reason?

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3) What would you have to CHANGE to be recognized as Jewish (or not) by the people in Question 2?

I couldn't change anything, especially if they follow traditions of man over Tanakh. The question doesn't ask what would you change about someone else, it asks what would you change (about yourself) to be recognized as .... by the people in #2. In other words, what would you change about yourself in order to be recognized as Jewish by (apparently) those you care about here in the Forum?

What advantage then is there to being a Jew, and who were the talmidim to preach Brit Chadashah to first? Also, I can't change anything about my being Jewish. You all will have to change your definition of who and who isn't Jewish; and the only reason I cared about your opinion is because you accused me of pretending to be Jewish, and pretending to be Jewish is both anti-Semitic and antithetical.

Something that you already were, before you found out you were Jewish, is a believer in Jesus. Your lineage can't/doesn't add to that.

But gosh Goy, you bring it up in so many posts that have nothing to do with the topic. To me, it's a big "who cares"?

What bugs *me* is that you "lord" it over us "mere goy": "I'll have you know I am 3/16 partilineally Jewish"...SO? What's your point?

I'll have you know that we are indwelt by the same Spirit. That His blood supersedes yours and mine. What covenant/priviledge do you have that is better than that?

What is it that you want us to say? I think that it's great for you to look into/track your lineage, if it is important to you. (I have lots of friends who trace theirs back centuries.) Me? I could care less where my people came from. To each their own.

Place your confidence in the Holy Spirit in you to do the work He wants you to do, to whom He wants you to witness to, and less in the genes that flow in your blood.

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What advantage then is there to being a Jew,

None.

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and who were the talmidim to preach Brit Chadashah to first?

Jews, but one doesn't have to be a Jew to do so...the Holy Spirit does the work anyway. And He is neither Jew nor Gentile.

And just maybe the way to go about it would be refraining from insults. Temper your hardcore truth with a little gentleness and respect. Huh?

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

For all of you criticizing me and calling me a pretender or not a Jewish woman, I have copies of documents, e-mails from a distant cousin of my dad, and other evidence that I'm patrilineally Jewish.

Daat Emet
Dr. Shaye Cohen, as J.R. Wilhelm cited, argued:

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What, then, is the reason for matrilineal descent? If traditional Judaism does not reckon Jewish identity by matrilineal descent for any of the reasons outlined above, what is the reason? Professor Shaye Cohen, who devoted an entire chapter to the origins of matrilineal descent in his book The Beginnings of Jewishness6, was ultimately forced to admit that he has no idea why the rabbis chose to break with biblical practice and institute matrilineality7. There is no clear reason that Judaism has to be matrilineal, except that it has been so for many centuries.

And there is even less reason that we should accept discrimination supported not merely by bad reasons, but by no reason at all.

A document that prove my Jewishness shows the name of Katarzyna Danilowicz, Julius' mother. By the way, I'm sharing this for only my personal use and to show that I'm patrilineally Jewish.

Don't see a thing indicating this person is Jewish.
But even if he was...by Jews you are not Jewish.

The very group you want so desperately to be a part
of you will always consider you to be gentile.

And there is nothing to be ashamed about being
a gentile. Being Jewish does not make a person superior,
nor grant them special favors in the eyes of the
Almighty. A Jew is no better than anyone else on
this forum.

Ripley's Wrote:

Something that you already were, before you found out you were Jewish, is a believer in Jesus. Your lineage can't/doesn't add to that.

But gosh Goy, you bring it up in so many posts that have nothing to do with the topic. To me, it's a big "who cares"?

What bugs *me* is that you "lord" it over us "mere goy": "I'll have you know I am 3/16 partilineally Jewish"...SO? What's your point?

I'll have you know that we are indwelt by the same Spirit. That His blood supersedes yours and mine. What covenant/priviledge do you have that is better than that?

What is it that you want us to say? I think that it's great for you to look into/track your lineage, if it is important to you. (I have lots of friends who trace theirs back centuries.) Me? I could care less where my people came from. To each their own.

Place your confidence in the Holy Spirit in you to do the work He wants you to do, to whom He wants you to witness to, and less in the genes that flow in your blood.

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What advantage then is there to being a Jew,

None.

I'm fully confident in the Holy Spirit, but I realize that I'm not just some gentile sitting back and hearing about Jews and Israel in church. I'm a Jewish woman who has both salvation and judgement first, and these stories about the Jewish people are actually a part of my history.

Sheitl Queen Wrote:

Don't see a thing indicating this person is Jewish.
But even if he was...by Jews you are not Jewish.

The very group you want so desperately to be a part
of you will always consider you to be gentile.

And there is nothing to be ashamed about being
a gentile. Being Jewish does not make a person superior,
nor grant them special favors in the eyes of the
Almighty. A Jew is no better than anyone else on
this forum.

I don't want to be part of your non-Messianic, Hasidic group that shuns patrilineal and Messianic Jews; and by Tanakh and Brit Chadashah, both patrilineal and matrilineal, and Messianic and non-Messianic Jews are Jewish. However, non-Messianic Jews are incomplete Jews; and for the Jewish people that non-Messianics like you shun, there needs to be an advocate. Also, if you'd read my earlier posts, I explained why Julius was Jewish.

Goy:

Jew or not a Jew, you are something of more value than both a Jew and a gentile: you are the bride. What we were in the flesh is nothing as what we will be on that day and evermore. Whether we are Jew or gentile, we will be one body, Jew and gentile. On that day, those that aren't Jewish in the flesh, will be made Jewish. And those that are Jewish in the flesh, will be made gentile. Both become one body and one bride. What value is there then in being a Jew or gentile?

Let those that are in the flesh brag about their flesh. But when they stand before you--you who will be arrayed in your wedding clothes next to the King of Glory--they will experience the nakedness of flesh. Both are shamed. What value is there then in being a Jew or gentile?

Paul says that there is great value in being a Jew. But notice, all that value occurred in the past and was lost to them. They will not be saved by following Jewish laws or by being Jewish flesh. We, Jews and gentiles who have accepted the Lord as our groom, look to the value we receive in the present, grace and not condemnation from the law, and in the future, robes of the purest white though our sins be like scarlet. Both receive the same grace and are clothed alike. What value is there then in being a Jew or gentile?

Hell was made for angels and nor for men. Yet Jews and gentiles, the whole gamut of mankind, will experience the second death in that lake of fire. Both will suffer for an eternity as lawbreakers. What value is there then in being a Jew or gentile?

Know your family history, but don't let it be an idol. Idols cheapen us, and you are of great value.

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

I don't want to be part of your non-Messianic, Hasidic group that shuns patrilineal and Messianic Jews

Good, because you will never be acceptable to us.
By the way, I am not Chassidic.

"Patrilineal Jews" are not Jews, and therefore there is nothing
to shun. Any Messianic Jew who is halachaly Jewish (Jewish
mother) should not be welcome into the Jewish community
until they repent of their sin.

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. However, non-Messianic Jews are incomplete Jews

Hmm...how can one be "incomplete"? Because they believe
in Judaism and G-d and Torah, rather than Christianity?

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and for the Jewish people that non-Messianics like you shun, there needs to be an advocate.

Advocate all you want, but no branch of Judaism will accept you or
others like yourself. If you wish to deceive yourself and others by
claiming to be a Jew, that is your choice. All you do is bring shame
to your movement when this deception is revealed....because
no Jew will accept you, and will consider you calling yourself a Jew
to be a lie.

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Also, if you'd read my earlier posts, I explained why Julius was Jewish.

I did read them, and all I have seen is wishful thinking on your part
that you can find some Jewish ancestor, and thus deceive yourself
into thinking you are a Jew.
This is all quite sad....be proud to be the gentile that you are.