09-15-2006, 03:02 AM
There has been some heated debate on the site concerning the interpretation of Peter and of Scripture passages that have been controversial throughout centuries with resulting schisms in Christ’s body, bringing about much sadness for every believer.
I am disappointed when I look at the hostile and proud manner of some of you when you discuss these matters: Certain individuals in here like to type with CAPS so everyone can see their self esteem. Others say: “That’s just how it is!..” And some even condemn fellow Christians to hell.
What did particularly disturb me was the fact, that many of the attempts made inhere, by Catholics, to promote their view were to me often disturbing, very easy to misinterpret or even outright wrong.
I would like to make a somewhat different approach to some of the issues in question and I hope you will hear me out.
Firstly, I’d like to say that I am a Catholic. I became a member of the Catholic Church some few years ago after having been raised a protestant. This came by way of the Catholic mysticism and the charismatic movement. More precisely it came as a direct result of the, by now, world-famous apparitions in Medjugorje, as well as the prophetic writings of orthodox Vassula Rydén, both phenomena which I today hold to be authentic examples of the Grace of God in our times. I entered the Catholic Church most because I wanted to get as close to my Lord as possible through the holy Communion/Eucharist. Honestly I found much inspiration in the supernatural experiences in the lives of people I have met. I became a Christian who attends the Catholic Mass as often as I can. This, however, did not imply any contempt for my protestant family or other fellow Christians. On the contrary it gave me an aching need to work for the Unity of the Church(es). Also because I red the conversations between Vassula and Jesus, which spoke the Lord’s wish for us to bend, lower our voices and hear His: bend with love towards each other; by means of our love and humility He will unite us. But as I have stated in earlier posts, I also go often to pray and listen to sermons in other denominations like the Orthodox and the Messianic congregations and the Pentecostal Church in particular, whom the Lord gives great graces through His Spirit. I can and will not deny that God is working marvellously among All true Christians.
When it comes to Catholicism I need to state some points.
“Peter – the rock…”Guard my sheep”: I reckon, from reading these Passages, that Jesus did choose Peter to have a special role as the representative and leader of His apostles. That Jesus would choose to call Simon for Peter and then say: “And on this rock I will build My Church..” is for me a clear indication to Peters role. It seems illogical to me that Jesus would say this so clearly, with the obvious risk of confusion, if He did not mean it. Many learned people in here like to interpret the verse as a confirmation only on the fact that Jesus himself is the Rock and truly the Son of God, as confessed to by Peter. On this Truth the Church should be built, you hold. I can only agree with you. Isn’t it great, that the Word of God is so deep and we all need to help each other discern the riches in It? In fact I hold all three interpretations to be valid and most useful. Omitting any of them would seem strange and even suspicious to me.
When it comes to the role of Peter, I do love the title “servant of the servants”, which was formerly used very much when the Pope would introduce him self. The Vicar of Christ seems somewhat more intrusive or haughty to some.. Personally I like the first option, but then again I also think of the Pope as a granddad and a wise shepherd, chosen by the Holy Spirit to help the sheep in the world until the Groom comes in with all His Power and Majesty on the clouds. Jesus said to Peter: “Guard my sheep”. He even confirmed it three times.
But Jesus is Himself is the Good Shepherd, someone may object: why then does He appoint a mere human to guard His sheep? I cannot say.. How can I the poorest of all correct the Wisdom of God?
However, do we not need shepherds? And do we need a congregation of the doctrine of faith (call it whatever you like)? Certainly, in my view the sheep today are scattered and are dying, - dying within and out side of the established Christian Assemblies. We are all to blame for this.. all of us have been fighting each other, showing to the world the horrible face of division.. of tepidity.. of pride.. of indifference.. Can anyone not lean on his brother, in a time so obscure, when the bones are lying scattered and dry, and cry: “Lord have Mercy.. fulfil now the promise of Ezekiel 37!”
However, one thing should be totally clear: whatever branch of the Vine we belong to: Nobody can lay down any other foundation than the one which is there already, namely Jesus Christ. (1 Cor.3:11 ) We are the Temple and the House of the Lord. We are the branches, He is the Vine. He is the root from which we get our sap. Jesus is the Head. Not Peter, not Paul.. not anyone but Jesus and with Him the Father and the Spirit in their Trice Holy Oneness. All things wears away like a garment but Jesus’ Word remains eternally.
Peter, as well as any servant, does the will of the Lord God, and is therefore doing the work of Him. Therefore He can bind and loose. You see, no one can do anything without the Lord from whom all good things come. If the servant is not in unison with God then he can’t do anything. God is just, but He does not let the weaknesses of man keep Him from showering creation with mercy. The shepherd is where Jesus is and vs. Therefore it is not right to separate the mercy from God, like some do when they imply that Catholics go to their priest to get absolution. I do go to priest, certainly, but only because I know the One and Only High Priest Jesus is blessing me and granting me pardon in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He is present. When I confess at the side of the priest we are both aware of Jesus’ presence.. I kneel and say: I am sorry Lord, my God for I have grieved you… It is by God’s Spirit we can forgive.. it is by His Spirit that we can serve Him, have faith, and love… Jesus is acting in us. Separated from Him we can do nothing.
When we know His words, He says, we will be blessed if we act accordingly. A faith with out works is as dead as a body without breath, says Scripture. It is no secret that Martin Luther did not prefer the letter of James for this reason, but preferred rather the letter to Rome, in his own life, for its faith-redemption passage. (Thereby I don’t wish to judge Luther.. if I were to criticize someone it would rather be his confessor, who did not understand the frailty of man and let the Luther drive himself mad with remorse, which was never the intention of the Lord).
All this does not mean that I, as a Catholic, believe I can save my self. It is far from me. Only the Lord can save me. And my actions are important or worthwhile only inasmuch as He blesses them. Then, on the other hand, they do become very important. Our actions are precious to the Lord. He says: Not the man who says “Lord, Lord!” will be saved but the one who does the will of the Father. Is faith an action? Most certainly. But so is the thought, the kiss, the hug and the kind word, the ironing of a shirt and the cleaning of a bottle if it is done with love for Love. When Jesus worked as a carpenter then that work was also blessed and powerful in the hidden plan of redemption.. - Every motion done with love and in fellowship with Christ, holds the power of the Spirit of God. For God is Love. Therefore the Catholic Church also teaches that suffering, when it is entrusted into the Father’s Hands with acceptance and in remembrance of the Suffering of Jesus, this act of resigning to the will of God is a most powerful saving action, such as is prayer.
I am disappointed when I look at the hostile and proud manner of some of you when you discuss these matters: Certain individuals in here like to type with CAPS so everyone can see their self esteem. Others say: “That’s just how it is!..” And some even condemn fellow Christians to hell.
What did particularly disturb me was the fact, that many of the attempts made inhere, by Catholics, to promote their view were to me often disturbing, very easy to misinterpret or even outright wrong.
I would like to make a somewhat different approach to some of the issues in question and I hope you will hear me out.
Firstly, I’d like to say that I am a Catholic. I became a member of the Catholic Church some few years ago after having been raised a protestant. This came by way of the Catholic mysticism and the charismatic movement. More precisely it came as a direct result of the, by now, world-famous apparitions in Medjugorje, as well as the prophetic writings of orthodox Vassula Rydén, both phenomena which I today hold to be authentic examples of the Grace of God in our times. I entered the Catholic Church most because I wanted to get as close to my Lord as possible through the holy Communion/Eucharist. Honestly I found much inspiration in the supernatural experiences in the lives of people I have met. I became a Christian who attends the Catholic Mass as often as I can. This, however, did not imply any contempt for my protestant family or other fellow Christians. On the contrary it gave me an aching need to work for the Unity of the Church(es). Also because I red the conversations between Vassula and Jesus, which spoke the Lord’s wish for us to bend, lower our voices and hear His: bend with love towards each other; by means of our love and humility He will unite us. But as I have stated in earlier posts, I also go often to pray and listen to sermons in other denominations like the Orthodox and the Messianic congregations and the Pentecostal Church in particular, whom the Lord gives great graces through His Spirit. I can and will not deny that God is working marvellously among All true Christians.
When it comes to Catholicism I need to state some points.
“Peter – the rock…”Guard my sheep”: I reckon, from reading these Passages, that Jesus did choose Peter to have a special role as the representative and leader of His apostles. That Jesus would choose to call Simon for Peter and then say: “And on this rock I will build My Church..” is for me a clear indication to Peters role. It seems illogical to me that Jesus would say this so clearly, with the obvious risk of confusion, if He did not mean it. Many learned people in here like to interpret the verse as a confirmation only on the fact that Jesus himself is the Rock and truly the Son of God, as confessed to by Peter. On this Truth the Church should be built, you hold. I can only agree with you. Isn’t it great, that the Word of God is so deep and we all need to help each other discern the riches in It? In fact I hold all three interpretations to be valid and most useful. Omitting any of them would seem strange and even suspicious to me.
When it comes to the role of Peter, I do love the title “servant of the servants”, which was formerly used very much when the Pope would introduce him self. The Vicar of Christ seems somewhat more intrusive or haughty to some.. Personally I like the first option, but then again I also think of the Pope as a granddad and a wise shepherd, chosen by the Holy Spirit to help the sheep in the world until the Groom comes in with all His Power and Majesty on the clouds. Jesus said to Peter: “Guard my sheep”. He even confirmed it three times.
But Jesus is Himself is the Good Shepherd, someone may object: why then does He appoint a mere human to guard His sheep? I cannot say.. How can I the poorest of all correct the Wisdom of God?
However, do we not need shepherds? And do we need a congregation of the doctrine of faith (call it whatever you like)? Certainly, in my view the sheep today are scattered and are dying, - dying within and out side of the established Christian Assemblies. We are all to blame for this.. all of us have been fighting each other, showing to the world the horrible face of division.. of tepidity.. of pride.. of indifference.. Can anyone not lean on his brother, in a time so obscure, when the bones are lying scattered and dry, and cry: “Lord have Mercy.. fulfil now the promise of Ezekiel 37!”
However, one thing should be totally clear: whatever branch of the Vine we belong to: Nobody can lay down any other foundation than the one which is there already, namely Jesus Christ. (1 Cor.3:11 ) We are the Temple and the House of the Lord. We are the branches, He is the Vine. He is the root from which we get our sap. Jesus is the Head. Not Peter, not Paul.. not anyone but Jesus and with Him the Father and the Spirit in their Trice Holy Oneness. All things wears away like a garment but Jesus’ Word remains eternally.
Peter, as well as any servant, does the will of the Lord God, and is therefore doing the work of Him. Therefore He can bind and loose. You see, no one can do anything without the Lord from whom all good things come. If the servant is not in unison with God then he can’t do anything. God is just, but He does not let the weaknesses of man keep Him from showering creation with mercy. The shepherd is where Jesus is and vs. Therefore it is not right to separate the mercy from God, like some do when they imply that Catholics go to their priest to get absolution. I do go to priest, certainly, but only because I know the One and Only High Priest Jesus is blessing me and granting me pardon in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He is present. When I confess at the side of the priest we are both aware of Jesus’ presence.. I kneel and say: I am sorry Lord, my God for I have grieved you… It is by God’s Spirit we can forgive.. it is by His Spirit that we can serve Him, have faith, and love… Jesus is acting in us. Separated from Him we can do nothing.
When we know His words, He says, we will be blessed if we act accordingly. A faith with out works is as dead as a body without breath, says Scripture. It is no secret that Martin Luther did not prefer the letter of James for this reason, but preferred rather the letter to Rome, in his own life, for its faith-redemption passage. (Thereby I don’t wish to judge Luther.. if I were to criticize someone it would rather be his confessor, who did not understand the frailty of man and let the Luther drive himself mad with remorse, which was never the intention of the Lord).
All this does not mean that I, as a Catholic, believe I can save my self. It is far from me. Only the Lord can save me. And my actions are important or worthwhile only inasmuch as He blesses them. Then, on the other hand, they do become very important. Our actions are precious to the Lord. He says: Not the man who says “Lord, Lord!” will be saved but the one who does the will of the Father. Is faith an action? Most certainly. But so is the thought, the kiss, the hug and the kind word, the ironing of a shirt and the cleaning of a bottle if it is done with love for Love. When Jesus worked as a carpenter then that work was also blessed and powerful in the hidden plan of redemption.. - Every motion done with love and in fellowship with Christ, holds the power of the Spirit of God. For God is Love. Therefore the Catholic Church also teaches that suffering, when it is entrusted into the Father’s Hands with acceptance and in remembrance of the Suffering of Jesus, this act of resigning to the will of God is a most powerful saving action, such as is prayer.
), I believe God will bless us.