JFJ Forums - How Jewish But Not Kosher?

Shlomo, so-called "Jew4Judaism", and others,

If you think that I, a patrilineally-Jewish Christian, am not kosher already, you'll hate this one more; but bear with me. I try, but not on my own strength (Genesis 15:6, Deuteronomy 9, Philppians 4:13), to keep as kosher as possible even while a matrilineally-gentile Jewish Christian. How much more do I have to say to convince you that a patrilineal Jew can be a Jew, and a Jew a Christian?

I, on my blog, Wrote:

I miss Tashi, and remember at least the general parts of and some specifics of those last weeks; and I was protestant against having her put down (I didn't want to be culpable in the murder of a cat.) and having (by my county's rules) her cremated by the vet (due to the Shoah and that I wanted to bury her as most non-Messianic Jews and Jewish Christians would bury their pets). I was angry at Tashi when she wouldn't go wait for the Resurrection (animals don't have souls; but, since God will restore even the trees, she'll be konos (restored)). When they put Tashi down, I looked at her and went, "Jesus Christ; that's not our Tashi." I grieved again on September 13, 2008, after watching the video with Peaches, who looked exactly like Tashi. I had said, "Peaches looked like my cat. I wanted to re-live that moment just to see if I could. I cried when they put Peaches down."

I admit to breaking the third commandment, but I was grieved.

There are Rules that Jews should keep and rules that non Jews should keep.

If your rule is that you are Jewish more people discussed it on this forum allready.... So I think you know the opinions by now.

I'm sorry for the cat.
Judaism believes as it is written, that animals have souls. For the soul is in the blood (so disscussions are if Fish have blood also etc.)
So I don't know where you have the idea from that animals have no souls.
Cremation is not an option in Judaism because of it. But anyway it happened...

I don't know the rules about euthanesia on animals in Judaism...
But thou shall not Kill is something else than murder...
If you want to be closer to Jewish heritage, read the sources of Judaism about the rules, maybe it reliefes somewhat.
But Judaism has some more rules that don't count for Gentiles about murdering, for example for abortion the rules for Jews are different than for non-Jews. Judaism learns that if the mother is in lifethreatning danger, abortion is allowed. For non-Jews who believe ''thou shall not kill'' it shouldn't be an option...

So with Lifethreatning situations I might murder my animal maybe, but first I will ask my Rabbi.

Goy, I'm so sorry to hear about the death of your beloved cat. I've had to put 3 chow children of mine down and it is always the same as the death of a human family member to me. I tell myself that it allows them to pass into death in an easier, more merciful manner than lingering in a pain that they can't express to us. I too hope to meet them in the next life (across the rainbow bridge, as they say).

Allow yourself to grieve. It is necessary.

Yetzirah231 Wrote:

I'm sorry for the cat.
Judaism believes as it is written, that animals have souls. For the soul is in the blood (so disscussions are if Fish have blood also etc.)
So I don't know where you have the idea from that animals have no souls.
Cremation is not an option in Judaism because of it. But anyway it happened...

I don't know the rules about euthanesia on animals in Judaism...
But thou shall not Kill is something else than murder...
If you want to be closer to Jewish heritage, read the sources of Judaism about the rules, maybe it reliefes somewhat.
But Judaism has some more rules that don't count for Gentiles about murdering, for example for abortion the rules for Jews are different than for non-Jews. Judaism learns that if the mother is in lifethreatning danger, abortion is allowed. For non-Jews who believe ''thou shall not kill'' it shouldn't be an option...

Why, if the animals did not have the Ruach-Chai breathed into them, do they have souls? Also, Kohelet indicates that animals don't have souls. As for abortion and Judaism, why does the life of a baby who was miscarried because someone punched the mother's stomach deserve compensation, even life for life if the husband demands it and the court allows it?

Quote:

Why, if the animals did not have the Ruach-Chai breathed into them, do they have souls?

Gen 1:30- And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant." And that is how it was.

I don't get it either, Goy, but it's what God says. (But it's one reason I think there will be -perfect, non-threatening, as originally designed- animals in heaven. Not dogmatic about it though. I'll find out when I get there. -LOL-)

Quote:

Judaism learns that if the mother is in lifethreatning danger, abortion is allowed. For non-Jews who believe ''thou shall not kill'' it shouldn't be an option...

Abortion is understood to be allowed if the mother's life is in danger. (Choosing between two lives/deaths. If the child is chosen over the mother, one is still being "sacrificed" for the sake of the other.)

But, correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that before 40 days gestation, abortion (for any reason/on demand) is also allowable according to Jewish custom. Is that true?

We also understand the difference between murder and kill. And the difference between murder that is a result of different causes (premeditated vs accidental). Our (secular/Judeo-Christian based) laws reflect that.

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Why, if the animals did not have the Ruach-Chai breathed into them, do they have souls?

Gen 1:30- And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant." And that is how it was.

I don't get it either, Goy, but it's what God says. (But it's one reason I think there will be -perfect, non-threatening, as originally designed- animals in heaven. Not dogmatic about it though. I'll find out when I get there. -LOL-)

But animals don't have souls like human souls, then.

Ripley's Wrote:

Quote:

Why, if the animals did not have the Ruach-Chai breathed into them, do they have souls?

Gen 1:30- And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant." And that is how it was.

I don't get it either, Goy, but it's what God says. (But it's one reason I think there will be -perfect, non-threatening, as originally designed- animals in heaven. Not dogmatic about it though. I'll find out when I get there. -LOL-)

Look at these:

Quote:

Genesis 1:30 (New King James Version)
30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

Quote:

1:30
And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant." And that is how it was.

Could the soul just be a spark of life, since only humans were created in the unique image of the God of Israel? (Genesis 1:26-27) Also, Solomon ponders:

Quote:

Ecclesiastes 3:16-22
Injustice Seems to Prevail
16 Moreover I saw under the sun:

      Inthe place of judgment,
      Wickedness was there;
      And in the place of righteousness,
      Iniquity was there.

17 I said in my heart,

      “ God shall judge the righteous and the wicked,
      For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”

18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[a] 22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

éè  ëÌÄé îÄ÷ÀøÆä áÀðÅé-äÈàÈãÈí åÌîÄ÷ÀøÆä äÇáÌÀäÅîÈä, åÌîÄ÷ÀøÆä àÆçÈã ìÈäÆí--ëÌÀîåÉú æÆä ëÌÅï îåÉú æÆä, åÀøåÌçÇ àÆçÈã ìÇëÌÉì; åÌîåÉúÇø äÈàÈãÈí îÄï-äÇáÌÀäÅîÈä àÈéÄï, ëÌÄé äÇëÌÉì äÈáÆì.  19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that man hath no pre-eminence above a beast; for all is vanity.
ë  äÇëÌÉì äåÉìÅêÀ, àÆì-îÈ÷åÉí àÆçÈã; äÇëÌÉì äÈéÈä îÄï-äÆòÈôÈø, åÀäÇëÌÉì ùÑÈá àÆì-äÆòÈôÈø.  20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust.
ëà  îÄé éåÉãÅòÇ, øåÌçÇ áÌÀðÅé äÈàÈãÈí--äÈòÉìÈä äÄéà, ìÀîÈòÀìÈä; åÀøåÌçÇ, äÇáÌÀäÅîÈä--äÇéÌÉøÆãÆú äÄéà, ìÀîÇèÌÈä ìÈàÈøÆõ.  21 Who knoweth the spirit of man whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast whether it goeth downward to the earth?

Goy Of Yeshua

I think Ripley's answer answers the question.
Where is it written in Kohelet? (anyway Kohelet is not what God said, Torah is). But sounds interesting...

and Ripley about the 40 days... I don't know. I read over 10 years about it. I thought there where different opinions as usual.

Yetzirah231 Wrote:

Goy Of Yeshua

I think Ripley's answer answers the question.
Where is it written in Kohelet? (anyway Kohelet is not what God said, Torah is). But sounds interesting...

and Ripley about the 40 days... I don't know. I read over 10 years about it. I thought there where different opinions as usual.

So only Torah, not Neviim or Ketuvim, are inspired by God? Also, the Hebrew that I copied and pasted came up as a combination of Latin letters and math symbols. "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that man hath no pre-eminence above a beast; for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust. Who knoweth the spirit of man whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast whether it goeth downward to the earth?" (Ecclesiates 3:19-21) Also, Genesis talks about man and woman being created in the image of God.