JFJ Forums - Late night questions about God blowing the shofar

It's 2 in the morning. I need some questions answered.

Look at Matthew 25:6. Before the bridegroom shows up, there is a cry, "Behold the bridegroom is coming, go out to meet him!" Who says this? The bridegroom? That's what we've been assuming in our paradigms of the wedding feast and Yom Teruah. But all messages like this announcing Christ in the past have been said by an archangel.

Question: Do we have to hear the voice of the archangel audibly? Or can we hear it in our souls? Or is there another possibility?

Look at 1 Thess 4:16. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

Question: Can God both blow the trumpet and shout at the same time? What if we are to view this verse in stages? Notice, the dead in Christ will rise first. What would each stage represent? That is, what would the shout represent? What would the voice of an archangel represent? What would the trumpet of God represent? Which order? Is it possible that this statement speaks to more than just the rapture, but to all the Second Coming?

Look at 1Corinthians 15:52. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Question: What in that verse says that we will experience the dead in Christ raised first? Are there any scriptures in the Bible that tell us how we will know when the dead in Christ will rise? How would we know that the last trump has sounded?

Look at Revelation 4. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." My assumption is that this represents the rapture.

Question: Who says "Come Up" hither?

Just to hint where my thoughts are leading, I'm playing around with the notion that God did blow the shofar last week. The world markets are crashing as of Yom Teruah. Syria has just placed their tanks and armored vehicles within a short drive of Israel; Russia is docking a missle cruiser in Syria on Yom Kippur; the Jews, according to one article, are keeping an eye out for Yom Kippur II.

Wow! What an awesome post! You have raised so many great questions. I have also wondered if the shofar has sounded, with the worldwide economic plunge and its timing around the holidays. I would be interested if there are others who've had similar thoughts.

I'm not sure I am ready to answer your questions, but I will share a story that I read years ago in Christianity Today.

An American pastor was teaching at a small African seminary to new converts, on the principle that training men and women to minister to their own villages, rather than sending missionaries to them from other countries, would be more effective. One day he was teaching on the passage in 1 Thes that you referenced: the Lord will descend with a shout. (Note that it indicates the Lord will be the one doing the shouting; not us. At least that's how I've always understood it.)

One of the men in his class very timidly raised his hand to ask a question, and with some hesitation finally said, "What will He shout?"

This caught the instructor off guard and he did not have an answer. But he continued to ponder the question, and came up with the following response:

He believes the Lord's shout, when He returns to reclaim what is His, will be "ENOUGH!" Enough sin, sickness, violence, hatred, pornography, exploitation, substance abuse, suffering, idolatry, rebellion, greed. ENOUGH!

Even so, come Lord Jesus!

Blessings to you,
Anne

*Sigh* My long reply was lost here So ...in summary.... I think it is perhaps the Holy Spirit Who may be speaking in the parable of the virgins, and that angels are blowing the trumpets as in a royal processional. The rising of the dead and those who are alive all happen in a twinkling of an eye (I think). As for the last question... while I don't want to dismiss or diss all that is happening on the world stage right now, all we can do is watch and wait expectantly. Be patient, be ready. That is the whole point of the virgin parable.

Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!

We all have only our theories when it comes to "the what is it going to BE LIKE" questions.

And so, The best way to answer these questions is to Fall in love with Jesus, become born again (Acts 2:38) and then LOOK UP... and watch as they happen before our eyes...

The one thing I do know for sure, is that Yeshuah Is a big, grinning, "Show Off"...
and so, when this all this goes down, it will be SPECTACULAR!

revelation320 Wrote:

Just to hint where my thoughts are leading, I'm playing around with the notion that God did blow the shofar last week. The world markets are crashing as of Yom Teruah. Syria has just placed their tanks and armored vehicles within a short drive of Israel; Russia is docking a missle cruiser in Syria on Yom Kippur; the Jews, according to one article, are keeping an eye out for Yom Kippur II.

Patience! Remember that the Antichrist comes to power after the Church is taken up, and it is under his control (Babylon, Rev 18) that commercial Babylon fails. This marketplace reckoning is not the one.

Rejoice all the pieces of prophecy are moving exactly into place; they await God's allowing to proceed. Israel will suffer great loss to be sure, but a remnant will be saved. God will keep Israel. Remember Damascus will be completely destroyed, Russia's troops severely decimated. It will take seven years to bury them. The insanity of sin. This is not going to be over the plight of the Palestinians, but the control of Jerusalem and the annihilation of Israel. How to lose a war.

Baptistic Wrote:

Patience! . . . one.
You are reading into me. I don't think it is. But I do see it as moving into seal 3. We are now talking about a world financial collapse. If seal 3 is this close, than seal 1 must be closer, and the rapture even closer. You already know that I believe the church is taken out before the AC. I'm just considering some possibilities. I thought the rapture and the Day of the Lord coincided, or that the rapture preceded. But I'm exploring the possibility that it does not--though not denying my pre-trib, pre-millennium beliefs. We are to watch. But to watch what exactly? For the rapture? For the Day of the Lord? For something that will tell us that the end is near--the voice that proclaims the nearness of the bridegroom! The problem is that we never seem to read the scriptures seriously enough. Something spooks the foolish virgins and gives them time to leave before the door is shut against them. The parable seems to be suggesting that there is a sign--not the rapture--that we are not aware of yet that will make the sleepy reconsider their position and wake them up to their need that they are not saved (I am interpreting the oil in the lamp to be the holy spirit, and the lamp to be something like a "confession of faith in Christ," though like the typical Catholic, Protestant, and Emergent their confession is built on religion and not relationship. Not saying this to offend anyone. Just how I see things.) Reread Matthew 25:1-13, and let me know what you think, my wise friend.

Rejoice . . . war.

Agreed. Not worried, at all. Only trying to understand scripture better, and willing to examine my assumptions and probe the scriptures for more complete understanding. We are to watch. If the Day of the Lord has started, this gives us a reference point that we didn't have before. It is worth exploring.

revelation320 - Post #6 Wrote:

[...] We are to watch. But to watch what exactly? For the rapture? For the Day of the Lord? [...] Something spooks the foolish virgins [...] suggesting that there is a sign--not the rapture--[...] (I am interpreting the oil in the lamp to be the holy spirit,[...] Reread Matthew 25:1-13, and let me know what you think, [...]

The Day of the Lord is understood to be 1) the time of God's wrath upon the nations, including that which finishes His judgment upon Israel, and 2) when Messiah comes to reign, whom we acknowledge as our Lord Jesus Christ.

Concerning the parable of the ten virgins, I offer McGee's explanation of what I agree is the correct interpretation of this parable.  He references for NT Israel customs the Peshitta, which translation of Matt 25:1 indicates that the virgins went forth to meet the bridegroom and the bride, which means that the bridegroom is coming from the marriage to the marriage supper.  Also see Luke 12:35-36.  Since Revelation shows Christ returning with the Bride in tow, we can see that the marriage takes place in heaven.  So, who are the ten virgins?  They are representative of Israel post-Rapture.  McGee further notes that ch.25 is enlarging upon the answer of Jesus to the disciples' question in 24:3, "What shall be the sign of Thy coming?".  In all of those parables in ch.25, they need a personal attitude and relationship to Jesus Christ.

After the Rapture, those who subsequently believe are to watch.  How?  In the Church age, believers are told:  1 Thess 4:13-18; moreover, it is for believers to watch.  The watching exhorted by the apostles I believe not only refers to the coming of the Lord, but in all that concerns matters of faith.  2 Timothy 4:5; 1 Peter 4:7.  I would add, if we believers do not pay heed to these admonitions, we are like the [five wise] virgins who slept.

This does not answer your question of who/what exactly will they hear? but we know that in order to enter, they will need a right relationship to Christ (five wise virgins/oil/Holy Spirit).  The short answer for us is, scripture indicates Church age believers are to watch in all things concerning the faith (involving prayer, self examination, endurance, perseverance); this is empowered by the Holy Spirit within.

This is actually comforting to me.  Where we are not sure which current event means what in relation to God's timetable (yet the Church is not on a clock but Israel is) or the approach to the Day of the Lord, we rightly watch as we pray, endure, "strengthen the things that remain," ... PAY ATTENTION.