JFJ Forums - Would a Jew for Jesus please tell this person about Messianic Judaism?  Thank you.

Jans Wrote:

In todays Judaism, Reform Jews classifies a person as Jewish if the father is Jewish but mother is not Jewish. That person would grow up identifying themselves as Jewish but Orthodox Judaism does not recognize them as Jewish.

This is also true for Conservative Jews; they do not accept
paternal lineage either. Although it is the Reform movement's platform
that a person is Jewish if either mother OR father is Jewish, AND
they have been actively raised in the Jewish faith, I've met a fair
amount of Reform Jews who do not accept this.

Quote:

In Israel, the special immigration rights under law of return excludes Jewish people who believe Yeshua is the Messiach and have been baptized. Under that law, children whose father was Jewish but mother wasn't, who were raised reform Judaism and came to believe in Yeshua were excluded from the law of return.

This is where the confusion comes in. A person who has a Jewish
father but not a Jewish mother is NOT a Jew according to the law
of return. Therefore a Messianic who has a Jewish father but not
mother is a gentile, and as such should be eligible under the law
of return to make aliyah. The government was blocking these
people from making aliyah on the basis they were Messianic,
even if they were not Jewish. The lawsuit was based on this,
that the claimants were not Jews and therefore being denied
their right to make aliyah under the LOR. It is NOT saying they
are Jews, but that as gentiles with Jewish fathers, they should
be allowed by LOR to make aliyah and were being denied solely
because they were Messianic.

Quote:

A Messianic synagogue pointed out in court that people whose father is Jewish but not the mother, according to Orthodoxy, should have the rights under the law of return since Israel does not consider them Jewish and therefore they are not Jews who came to believe in Jesus and were baptized but rather non-Jews who believe on Jesus with a Jewish grandparent (or father).

Exactly, although again the Conservative movement also does not
accept paternal descent; it isn't solely an Orthodox position.

Thanks for the clarification I knew who lead the law suit but not the details.

This is interesting. The blessing is in actually being Jewish, not just being considered to be Jewish.

Chad
What blessing are you talking about?

Sheitl Queen Wrote:

Quote:

A Messianic synagogue pointed out in court that people whose father is Jewish but not the mother, according to Orthodoxy, should have the rights under the law of return since Israel does not consider them Jewish and therefore they are not Jews who came to believe in Jesus and were baptized but rather non-Jews who believe on Jesus with a Jewish grandparent (or father).

Exactly, although again the Conservative movement also does not
accept paternal descent; it isn't solely an Orthodox position.

A cardiologist I knew was Jewish and married a Christian. She said that; In times coming ;if the Jews would have to return to Israel; Her husband , and children were allowed, but not her. She was kindof upset about also!I respect Jewish law, but it seems a bit coldhearted.I believe Christ brought Jurisprudence to the law from the New Covenant written upon the heart.

Sheitl Queen Wrote:

Quote:

A Messianic synagogue pointed out in court that people whose father is Jewish but not the mother, according to Orthodoxy, should have the rights under the law of return since Israel does not consider them Jewish and therefore they are not Jews who came to believe in Jesus and were baptized but rather non-Jews who believe on Jesus with a Jewish grandparent (or father).

Exactly, although again the Conservative movement also does not
accept paternal descent; it isn't solely an Orthodox position.

A cardiologist I knew was Jewish and married a Christian. She said that; In times coming ;if the Jews would have to return to Israel; Her husband , and children were allowed, but not her. She was kindof upset about also!I respect Jewish law, but it seems a bit coldhearted.I believe Christ brought Jurisprudence to the law from the New Covenant written upon the heart.

Sheitl Queen Wrote:

Quote:

A Messianic synagogue pointed out in court that people whose father is Jewish but not the mother, according to Orthodoxy, should have the rights under the law of return since Israel does not consider them Jewish and therefore they are not Jews who came to believe in Jesus and were baptized but rather non-Jews who believe on Jesus with a Jewish grandparent (or father).

Exactly, although again the Conservative movement also does not
accept paternal descent; it isn't solely an Orthodox position.

A cardiologist I knew was Jewish and married a Christian. She said that; In times coming ;if the Jews would have to return to Israel; Her husband , and children were allowed, but not her. She was kindof upset about also!I respect Jewish law, but it seems a bit coldhearted.I believe Christ brought Jurisprudence to the law from the New Covenant written upon the heart.

[quote=Kitten]
I've worship in groups that considered themselves Messianic Jews for a years. They vary greatly. Most are groups of Christian trying to learn and understand Torah. Many peoples first steps are the feast days. They also have a wish to include Jewish membership but no ideas on how to gain Jewish members. Most groups at least read the Torah cycle and discuss Torah then the prophet and lastly the "New Testament, New Covenant, Christian scriptures." Which label is used depends on the group. While the first group I was apart of had Jewish members defined as people who were raised within Judaism, most of the newer groups have 0 Jewish members. While the intent on most groups is to follow Yeshua as a first century version of Jesus they differ on what that looks like.
[/quote Robert] When I heard of you mention feast days; it's amazing how G-d answers my questions of atonement. I was answering a question with searchmyroots on atonement associated with passover, and the blood covering was not atonement, but is but a part of the events leading to Atonement day.[1]Passover-Yeshua's crucifiction;[2] The feast of Unleavened bread -fulfilled-[Nissan 15] Yeshua's burial; [3] Feast of firstfruits-fulfilled; Yeshua's ressurection- [Nissan 17]; [4] Feast of Pentecost, fulfilled ,By the Holy Spirit[Sivan7]. The feast of trumpets are soon to be fulfilled! Thanks for my answer! The day of atonement is the day [All Israel] shall be saved [ Zechariah12*-13:1][Romans 11]. The post was ; Collective Messiah; fitting name?

Robert Wrote:

A cardiologist I knew was Jewish and married a Christian. She said that; In times coming ;if the Jews would have to return to Israel; Her husband , and children were allowed, but not her. [/quote]

That is not correct. The LOR was modified in 1970 to allow non-Jewish
spouses of Jews to make aliyah:

Quote:

"The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law... are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew".

Robert
Thanks for the information.
How does this information apply to my answer?

PS. It is possible and likely that Zechariah events will happen before the day of atonement since judgment isn't a part of chapter 13.