We met briefly today and had a few words, but some things were left unsaid. I spoke to you about considering your identity from the perspective of your grandparents, and great-grandparents, and so on, who suffered perhaps in the Shtetl's of the middle ages to pass on no greater fortune than your identity. This identity, this separateness which allows you to don the garment 'JEW for Jesus' was purchased at a greater price than your conformity to a religious upbringing skewed by the decisions of your parents. You know what it means to be for Jesus, but your understanding of what it means to be a Jew is wanting. I gave you some words, but i did not reveal to you the utter shattering of my heart to see such a passionate and sincere mensch bartering a birthright held dearly with little understanding for the disingenuous and historically irrelevant banter of the disciples of Elmer Gantry. I beg you, not to forgo your search--as you decipher G-d through the weak conceptualization thrust upon you by your Christian compatriots, but to hold dear to the question of what you are...as a Jew. Any answer which pretends to solve the dilemma of mans salvation through the simplistic assertion that it is true (no matter how improperly conceived) is a great disservice to the existential identity that is birthed through the pang of seeking, through the intellectual and emotional struggle which in the end reveals man as man. My Hashem bless you and keep you.
To whom here is your post addressed? By the way, I'm a Jewish Christian; but actually yelled at someone today for at least permitting and somewhat following the teaching of and allowing me to learn the anti-Jewish Replacement Theology, that the "Old" Testament is pretty much irrelevant as compared to the "New" Testament, etc. I said that the First ("Old", Tanakh) Testament points to the Second ("New", Brit Chadashah) Testament, and vice versa; but that I'm not advocating keeping all 613 mitzvot in Torah-Sinai (Yesha'yahu 29:13-14, Hoshea 6:6, Mark 7, Acts 15, Romans 2, 14; Galatians 1-5), only that Adom-Yisra'el are treated fairly.
We met briefly today and had a few words, but some things were left unsaid. I spoke to you about considering your identity from the perspective of your grandparents, and great-grandparents, and so on, who suffered perhaps in the Shtetl's of the middle ages to pass on no greater fortune than your identity. This identity, this separateness which allows you to don the garment 'JEW for Jesus' was purchased at a greater price than your conformity to a religious upbringing skewed by the decisions of your parents. You know what it means to be for Jesus, but your understanding of what it means to be a Jew is wanting. I gave you some words, but i did not reveal to you the utter shattering of my heart to see such a passionate and sincere mensch bartering a birthright held dearly with little understanding for the disingenuous and historically irrelevant banter of the disciples of Elmer Gantry. I beg you, not to forgo your search--as you decipher G-d through the weak conceptualization thrust upon you by your Christian compatriots, but to hold dear to the question of what you are...as a Jew. Any answer which pretends to solve the dilemma of mans salvation through the simplistic assertion that it is true (no matter how improperly conceived) is a great disservice to the existential identity that is birthed through the pang of seeking, through the intellectual and emotional struggle which in the end reveals man as man. My Hashem bless you and keep you.
I am not sure of the name. He belongs to the traveling musical group and was quite interested in finding a large crowd. I have no head for such deep theological questions as who replaced what with however, nor, for that matter, when. Of course it isn't enough for me to drop a few yiddish words here and there and feel content. In my opinion the Choffetz Chaim has greater claim to messiah-ship than Jesus, Yeshua or Yehoshua, or whatever this my three sons charade entails. You simply can't cut and paste two thousand years of ridiculous ideas, spend a few sunday afternoons talking about Telos at the local IHOP, put on a Tallit and say you've seen the light. What bothers me with the idea of Jews (who aren't quite sure what that means) for Jesus (who whether he liked them or not didn't understand much about managerial accountability) isn't that they don't feel adequate enough to present themselves to Hashem without a lawyer (no matter how well connected he may be) but that they give up on the responsibility of thought (which is something Jews do quite well) and end up sounding a lot like Benny Hinn (whose neurons, I swear, are conglomerated about his Hypothalamus in the shape of a cross). I think waving hands in the air and singing a Jesus niggun until someone out there listens and makes you light headed is as equally pretentious as drinking to a point on Purim where you confuse Haman with G-d.
[quote=GoyOfY'shua]
To whom here is your post addressed? By the way, I'm a Jewish Christian; but actually yelled at someone today for at least permitting and somewhat following the teaching of and allowing me to learn the anti-Jewish Replacement Theology, that the "Old" Testament is pretty much irrelevant as compared to the "New" Testament, etc. I said that the First ("Old", Tanakh) Testament points to the Second ("New", Brit Chadashah) Testament, and vice versa; but that I'm not advocating keeping all 613 mitzvot in Torah-Sinai (Yesha'yahu 29:13-14, Hoshea 6:6, Mark 7, Acts 15, Romans 2, 14; Galatians 1-5), only that Adom-Yisra'el are treated fairly.
I am not sure of the name. He belongs to the traveling musical group and was quite interested in finding a large crowd. I have no head for such deep theological questions as who replaced what with however, nor, for that matter, when. Of course it isn't enough for me to drop a few yiddish words here and there and feel content. In my opinion the Choffetz Chaim has greater claim to messiah-ship than Jesus, Yeshua or Yehoshua, or whatever this my three sons charade entails.
At least you admit that you're an anti-missionary person; but if you don't like Jewish or gentile Christianity, why are you on the JFJ forums, if not to debate and discuss?
At least you admit that you're an anti-missionary person; but if you don't like Jewish or gentile Christianity, why are you on the JFJ forums, if not to debate and discuss?
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Only to relate to the young man that I was distressed by his lack of self knowledge. Very few people are born into this world with a heritage, and even fewer are blessed with a heritage as brilliant, beautiful, tragic and subtle as a Jewish heritage. You yourself, I believe, crave an identity, and namely a Jewish one. Other people on this sight misunderstand this need of yours, but I see it for exactly what it is. You recognize the one-sidedness of self authentication, and the incongruity of an identity birthed in a vacuum which disregards history. To be a Jew For Jesus or a Charismatic birthed out of the rugged individualism of American culture, is to be like a man who loses his memory every time he blinks. Your 'yiddish nefesh' has an inherent understanding of this dilemma, and your intelligence demands of you a meaning bound by context. I hope you find the courage to cast off the discordant chords which bind you to the melody of the Christian lullaby, allowing you to find your self within the context of B'nai Yisroel or B'nai Noach, after all, there is only one you, and Hashem has a purpose for us all if we are willing.
Akivareb,
You have lovely flowing words but I seriously doubt Goy is going to convert to Judaism after having found the Prince of Peace.
Akivareb,
You have lovely flowing words but I seriously doubt Goy is going to convert to Judaism after having found the Prince of Peace.
I told him, "I'm a Jewish Christian; but actually yelled at someone today for at least permitting and somewhat following the teaching of and allowing me to learn the anti-Jewish Replacement Theology, that the "Old" Testament is pretty much irrelevant as compared to the "New" Testament, etc. I said that the First ("Old", Tanakh) Testament points to the Second ("New", Brit Chadashah) Testament, and vice versa; but that I'm not advocating keeping all 613 mitzvot in Torah-Sinai (Yesha'yahu 29:13-14, Hoshea 6:6, Mark 7, Acts 15, Romans 2, 14; Galatians 1-5), only that Adom-Yisra'el are treated fairly."
So, as a patrilineally-Jewish Christian, I am Jewish both ethnically and spirituallty.
At least you admit that you're an anti-missionary person; but if you don't like Jewish or gentile Christianity, why are you on the JFJ forums, if not to debate and discuss?
Only to relate to the young man that I was distressed by his lack of self knowledge. Very few people are born into this world with a heritage, and even fewer are blessed with a heritage as brilliant, beautiful, tragic and subtle as a Jewish heritage. You yourself, I believe, crave an identity, and namely a Jewish one. Other people on this sight misunderstand this need of yours, but I see it for exactly what it is. You recognize the one-sidedness of self authentication, and the incongruity of an identity birthed in a vacuum which disregards history. To be a Jew For Jesus or a Charismatic birthed out of the rugged individualism of American culture, is to be like a man who loses his memory every time he blinks. Your 'yiddish nefesh' has an inherent understanding of this dilemma, and your intelligence demands of you a meaning bound by context. I hope you find the courage to cast off the discordant chords which bind you to the melody of the Christian lullaby, allowing you to find your self within the context of B'nai Yisroel or B'nai Noach, after all, there is only one you, and Hashem has a purpose for us all if we are willing.
Akiva,
If only you would've understood that one can be both a Jewish person and Christian, maybe you could've helped the young man understand that to be a Jew for Jesus is actually birthed out of a Jewish person's need for a memory every time he blinks; and that memory needs to be that he or she needs to have a Jewish Messiah to help him or her remember Hashem (Genesis 15:6, Deuteronomy 6:4-6, 9, 18:15-22; Isaiah 29:13-14, 53; Micah 6:6-8, Psalm 51, 91, 112).
Akivareb,
You have lovely flowing words but I seriously doubt Goy is going to convert to Judaism after having found the Prince of Peace.
Ah, chow_woman, stranger things have happened. After all, Jews for Jesus, who had at their finger tips the very kernels of truth which set the world aflame with the light of G-d, have traded their potential as a conduit and amplifier, for truth passed through the finite resistor of a man, proclaiming the weakness of his signal the ultimate and electrifying G-d consciousness. Our relationship to G-d is expanded by our understanding of Him, just as a spillway is opened to relieve the tension of the water it holds. On one end is our perception, a great distance below the surface, and at the other end is the sea, waiting to enter, and to flood. Cochma is the spillway, ready to be full, Binah is the gates which allow the flood, Daas is the walls which direct its flow. Cochma is a signpost in the desert of our searching, Binah is the recognition of the applicability of Torah, and Daas is the Mitzvoth which channel the energy to its proper place. And the sea, the sea is G-d. The prince you believe in is no more than a concept with a name, it is a crack in the wall of the dam. When you say you know Jesus, you mean you feel him within the framework of your conceptualization. But what are you feeling? A trickle of water. What a disservice you do to your potential.
I don't trust in my potential, I trust in the G-d of Israel Who put on flesh to dwell among us and show us only the peace that He can give through paying for all of our sins past, present and future. There is no greater potential that what I have found in the G-d Who now dwells inside of me as well as everywhere else in the universe He created.
Shalom.