JFJ Forums

part 1)
Father of our Lord Yeshua is not yet revealed , how can this be ?

The followers of Judaism embraced monotheism .
They were only remotely acquainted with the identity of the God of the Old Testament. The overwhelming majority had never heard of the Father, because it was always "The Son" who they called Jehovah and that he was the one who interacted with the patriarchs, prophets and Israel herself. (Gen18:22,Deutr5:4,5)

The Bible teaches that no man had any knowledge of the Father prior to the time of Christ’s ministry. Yoch 5:37 showed, “And the Father Himself, which has sent Me, has borne witness of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.” Yoch 1:18 states, “No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” Next, Luke 10:22 states, “All things are delivered to Me of My Father: and no man knows who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.”

Two beings are also identified in the prologue of the gospel of John (1:1-2), just as is the case in the conversation between these two beings in Genesis 1:26: “Let Us make man in Our image…” Here, recall that the term “God” derives from the Hebrew Elohim (seen to be a plural term, a collective noun, similar to kingdom, family, or church).

The Father was the All-Supreme Being and the other Personage, The Son(I AM),was the Spokesman"The Word"who created all things (Yoch 1:3; Col. 1:13-17) and later appeared in the flesh as Yah,shua Messiah (John 1:14). The Only begotten Son was the God of the Old Testament
(I Cor. 10:1-4).
Some of the patriarchs such as Abraham(Gen18:22,)
or Moses(Yoch5:46,47) knew their Lord was the Son who dealt with Israel and thundered the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai.(Deutr5:4,5).

Recognize that the picture of the God Family was not fully clear until Yeshua Messiah revealed His Father.(Yoch 6:46) Since the proponents of Judaism rejected Yeshua Messiah and His message, they remain ignorant of this understanding to this day.

jesus is the God of the OT?


you are aware King david in The prophets  written down in the OT that God had no beginning.


You might say no this is God The father but then your adding terminology that they did not know nor use back then.

Here is part two of your thread.  I hope you don't mind I copied and pasted to people can read the whole article at the same site.


One God Family .
(by: Anja Andreas
Senior Member****
part 2)

One final point must be clarified regarding the definition of polytheism, and whether the idea of The gods Family.
Understand that the plain teaching of the Bible is that there is One God family, comprised of more beings. Just as a human family is one family that can be comprised of three, four, five or more people, Scripture reveals that God is one Family . This hard-to-miss fact has been lost for millennia on the minds of people who have been taught to believe that it is blasphemy to think that there could be more than one Being .

The Jews of the time of Christ thought it was blasphemy for Yeshua Messiah to assert His divinity( and that he had been in the presence of God his Father(Yoch8;56-59,Yoch 17;5). Tragically, most professing Christians today, including some who once knew otherwise, claim that it is equally blasphemous to accept the ultimate destiny for which human beings are born—what will be seen to be the true salvation revealed in the Bible.

The Bible makes clear that there is "one God Family", currently composed of The Son(our creator,(Col1;15-17) who Abraham called Jehovah in Gen 8;22,and the All-Supreme Being who is the Father of the Son (1Cor15;27,28), and that this Family will expand dramatically in the near future, as God,s Word explained. Eph 1:4,Yoch 17:24, Rom8:14-17

lets not forget Jesus himself claim to be with no beginning and to be The alpha and omega in revelation.


Jesus is all powerfull The Almighty One


it is a mistake to think jesus is a god but not The all-supreme because  that make 2 gods in one family.


Jesus himself cliam to be with no beginning

Thanks Navyblue
I just want to ad some thing more

God is now actively working in the minds of only those few who have come to know Him and who have His Holy Spirit within them (Acts 2:38). Humans are not born with God’s character. And God cannot instantly infuse them with it. Character must be developed over a lifetime.

God has perfect character in all respects. He is love (I John 4:8, 16).
Love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:10; I John 5:3), which requires yielding to God. It is outgoing concern for others, putting them first—ahead of self-interests.

Satan’s nature is selfish, incoming and concerned only with what is best for self and how to get more for self. This is the attitude he injected into Adam and Eve when they ate of the forbidden fruit. He wanted them blinded to their awesome potential.

Are you seeing that, while God made man in the form and shape, physically, of Himself, it does not end there?

You were created to become like god—to build perfect, holy, righteous character. Grasp this astonishing truth. God is reproducing Himself in human beings. Just as you are the child of parents, and possibly have children of your own, God is your Parent. In this life, God begins to spiritually re-form and re-shape those He calls—His children.
His Purpose is to build within them His nature.
Formed from inside out like The Menorah is formed out of one piece of gold
Ex25:36 Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be ONE BEATEN WORK of pure gold.

So then, God is reproducing Himself in those who have received His Holy Spirit. He is creating children that will look and BE just like Him! To build the very character of God is the reason you exist! But there is more to understand.

The astounding answer is in the next verse: “You made him [man] a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of Your Hands.”

Paul further explains that God plans to give immense power and authority to His Sons: “You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him” (vs. 8). This has not yet happened—but soon will, at the Return of Christ.

When God says that “all things” will be put under the feet of man, this is what He means. The vast universe, with all of its quadrillions of stars and one trillion galaxies, will be put under the authority of men who have been born into the Family of God. In fact, the Moffatt translation renders the Greek word for “all things” as “the universe.”

This is staggering knowledge!—wonderful beyond description! Take time to truly grasp it. Savor what can be your future. It is the reason you exist—it explains why you were born!

Before continuing, consider a fascinating verse about another related aspect of salvation few understand. We have seen that Christians await a truly incredible salvation. But, the whole creation is also intensely awaiting the appearing of all those new sons to be added to God’s Family.

Carefully read the following, previously referenced but now with different emphasis: “For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; for the creation [all things in the known universe] was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. We know that the whole creation [everything] has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves [Christians], who have The Firstfruits of the Spirit [the few now called], groan inwardly as we wait for [birth] as sons” (Rom. 8:19-23, RSV).

All future “children of God”—sons—will be liberators of a creation now in bondage. All humanly-devised gods, worshipped today in such ignorance, will be put aside and exposed for what they were—false!

Now I see what the seven spirits are in the verses in Revelation (the 7 spirits of god )
'Not by might, nor by power,BUT BY MY SPIRIT ,'
The 7 spirits is the spirit of Yeshua ( the oil in the lamps) every arm has at the end a lamp .
We can share our light but not the oil,only God can fill us with his oil.
Zach 4: The angel who talked with me came again, and wakened me, as a man who is wakened out of his sleep. 4:2 He said to me, "What do you see?"

I said, "I have seen, and behold, a menorah all of gold, with its bowl on the top of it, and its seven lamps thereon; there are seven pipes to each of the lamps, which are on the top of it;

If we see the holy temple ,remember Rev 21;22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty(Jehovah /Jesus), and the Lamb(his body), ARE ITS TEMPLE !
21:23 The city has no need for the sun, neither of the moon, to shine, for the very glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp( the menorah ,filled with the 7 spirits) is the Lamb.

21:24 The nations will walk in its light. The kings of the earth bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.


Zach4 :3, the angel who talked with me, saying, "What are these, my lord?"

4:5 Then the angel who talked with me answered me, "Don't you know what these are? "

Rev 21: The nations will walk in its light (read Num 8;2,3)
The kings of the earth bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. 21:25 Its gates will in no way be shut by day (for there will be no night there), 21:26 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it so that they may enter. 21:27 There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

22:1 He showed me a* river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, 22:2 in the middle of its street. On this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 22:3 There will be no curse any more. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants serve him. 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
22:5 There will be no night, and they need no lamp light; for the Lord God will illuminate them. They will reign forever and ever.

I believe The body of Christ is a beaten work from inside out .
Now look again how the candlestick is formed ?
Start reading Eph1;4 he hath chosen us IN him "before" the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ex 37;17 And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb "as it had been slain", having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God(seven lamps) sent forth into all the earth.

   7And he(the lamb) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

   8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.


The Menorah - which would illuminate Jewish minds and hearts with its spiritual glow, by inspiring them to contribute to the riches of the Oral Law - was the fulfillment of God's command that there be light in His universe.(Gen 1:2,3)

It was the First thing He desired For His world ,

Col1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of 'The Saints In Light'
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col1:17-19
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I believe the menorah is a symbol of Christ body standing inside the temple ,for a world without the light is mired in darkness.

Col1:19 For it pleased the Father that IN HIM  should all fullness dwell;

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

   22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

The menorah is formed out of one piece of pure gold, a symbol of holyness
Col1: 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church(the temple)
look inside this link
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...norah.html

anja how you deal withthe fact the prophets spoke of the Ot God as The almight and no beginning or ending?

Let holy spirit guide you to answer your question Brother ,read the scripture.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:

Gen2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Tell me what is the begin of Eve ,is it when Adam was created and in him God created the rib that would become Eve ?

Ore was the begin of Eve when God took the rib out of Adam and formed her into a living being and she became her own person Eve ?

Gen 2:21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

   22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

   23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.