12-01-2008, 11:50 AM
12-01-2008, 11:49 PM
Lorraine Boyd Wrote:
What kind of answer do I give to someone who says that God has no favorites, when I think that Jews are God's special people.
Lorraine
The Jews were set apart (sanctified). That makes them special. However, they are still under judgment just as gentiles are. They still have to access God through Christ just as gentiles do.
The word "favorites" is the problem, I think. It implies special treatment. Reading through the Bible and history, I don't see how the Jews got special treatment, as such. Being set apart may mean that you have a special place in God's plan, but if God is in control of all world events, that suggests to me that gentiles, too, have a special place in God's plan, albeit not the one that they wished they had, though we gentile Christians are quite happy with our position.
Scripture says in Romans 10:12-13, Rom 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
I don't think you can make the case that God is playing favorites--especially after 2000 years of silence to them. But I do think you can make the case clearly that the Jews are God's special people.
12-02-2008, 12:29 AM
Clearly the person has a human mind set of G-d and is unfamiliar with scriptures... the answer should be sensitive to the persons perspective and logic; but in the end it must point to the Word - the differentiator.
You may want bring the question closer to home and ask if the person has any of children themselves... and follow it up that you believe that G-d in fact has one and only favourite, Christ Jesus... and everything else is relative to Him!
You may want bring the question closer to home and ask if the person has any of children themselves... and follow it up that you believe that G-d in fact has one and only favourite, Christ Jesus... and everything else is relative to Him!
12-02-2008, 02:01 AM
In regards to salvation God is not a respecter of persons as it says in James.
However, there is an elect group. This is the thrust of Romans 11.
For some reason Christans don't like Romans 11 and I know why.
It is saying National Israel is God's Chosen people and to be grafted in you are being grafted in to Abraham.
So that's my answer, show them Romans 11 or even memorize some of the verses in it.
The whole point is that it doesn't seem like National ISrael is the Chosen people. But even thought most is a dead branch lying on the ground God can bring them back to life again.
I am the only one who says this, but I think all Jews will be raised from the dead when National ISrael accepts Yeshua Jesus as Savior and then they will see and accept him too fulfilling Romans 11:26 where it says all ISrael will be saved.
However, there is an elect group. This is the thrust of Romans 11.
For some reason Christans don't like Romans 11 and I know why.
It is saying National Israel is God's Chosen people and to be grafted in you are being grafted in to Abraham.
So that's my answer, show them Romans 11 or even memorize some of the verses in it.
The whole point is that it doesn't seem like National ISrael is the Chosen people. But even thought most is a dead branch lying on the ground God can bring them back to life again.
I am the only one who says this, but I think all Jews will be raised from the dead when National ISrael accepts Yeshua Jesus as Savior and then they will see and accept him too fulfilling Romans 11:26 where it says all ISrael will be saved.
12-02-2008, 04:15 AM
Shalom Lorraine Boyd, OK, I'll bite on the bait, with reservation.
You have cast a 'bone' of discussion/contention into the Forum of study, but without much meat upon it. That does not deter me, however, from speaking to what 'chewable' you offer, and hope I address what is on your heart.
In my opinion, and understanding:
1. Individual Favoritism: God has no favorites, and yet has a Favorite (does 'only begotten' ring a bell?). God does not 'respect' one person above another, but does favor some (The Chosen) above his fullness of Love for all. Consider Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Mosses, David, etc.
How many of them were eldest son's deserving of double portion? One, Abraham.
Which would qualify to be anyone superior, until God blessed them? None.
Which of them were allowed to break the rules with impunity? None.
How many obtained greatness through God's blessing? All.
Individually, we all have a 'position of blessing,' so bountiful, none will see anything missing.
2. National Favoritism: God has but one 'favorite' Nation, that being 'Israel' (not just 'Judah'). He chose it/them to be his people/wife, no matter how adulterous, and wayward His 'People' strayed; until Messiah. Then, He gave Israel's remnant, Judah, for lack of a better similitude, 'Legal Separation' from its/their espoused position. Jerusalem was then destroyed, Judea exiled, and the country salted unto desolation. That continued, until 5708 (1947), when God, heard their cries of pain and suffering, re-accepted Israel as spouse, and ordered them home, to rebuild the marriage.
Nationally, Israeli and Gentile all have a 'position of blessing,' so bountiful, none will see anything missing.
Does God 'Respect' Israel more? Nope. Does God 'Love' Israel more? Nope. Does God 'Favor' Israel more than Gentiles? Yep. Does God 'Bless' Israel more than Gentile Nations? Nope.
(Just think how long this would have been, had you offered more meat to chew on)
In Messiah's blessing, His Shalom. Arley
You have cast a 'bone' of discussion/contention into the Forum of study, but without much meat upon it. That does not deter me, however, from speaking to what 'chewable' you offer, and hope I address what is on your heart.
In my opinion, and understanding:
1. Individual Favoritism: God has no favorites, and yet has a Favorite (does 'only begotten' ring a bell?). God does not 'respect' one person above another, but does favor some (The Chosen) above his fullness of Love for all. Consider Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Mosses, David, etc.
How many of them were eldest son's deserving of double portion? One, Abraham.
Which would qualify to be anyone superior, until God blessed them? None.
Which of them were allowed to break the rules with impunity? None.
How many obtained greatness through God's blessing? All.
Individually, we all have a 'position of blessing,' so bountiful, none will see anything missing.
2. National Favoritism: God has but one 'favorite' Nation, that being 'Israel' (not just 'Judah'). He chose it/them to be his people/wife, no matter how adulterous, and wayward His 'People' strayed; until Messiah. Then, He gave Israel's remnant, Judah, for lack of a better similitude, 'Legal Separation' from its/their espoused position. Jerusalem was then destroyed, Judea exiled, and the country salted unto desolation. That continued, until 5708 (1947), when God, heard their cries of pain and suffering, re-accepted Israel as spouse, and ordered them home, to rebuild the marriage.
Nationally, Israeli and Gentile all have a 'position of blessing,' so bountiful, none will see anything missing.
Does God 'Respect' Israel more? Nope. Does God 'Love' Israel more? Nope. Does God 'Favor' Israel more than Gentiles? Yep. Does God 'Bless' Israel more than Gentile Nations? Nope.
(Just think how long this would have been, had you offered more meat to chew on)
In Messiah's blessing, His Shalom. Arley
12-02-2008, 10:03 AM
Lorraine Boyd Wrote:
What kind of answer do I give to someone who says that God has no favorites, when I think that Jews are God's special people.
Lorraine
"favorite" and "chosen/special" are not the same thing.
"Favorite" implies benefits and being treated better than other groups,
while "chosen" implies responsibility and leadership...and harsher
penalties when we do not follow His Torah and will.
12-02-2008, 10:12 AM
Just to add some reasoning for Christians.
1. Chosen or set appart, doens't have mean, favorite.
And Why did God not send Pharao out of Egypt, or every nation at that time?
2. even Jezus had a favorite deciple he loved most (I think it was John).
3. Why than did the deciples send sometimes others away who where not speaking the complete truth. Even deciples had their favorites...
4. Why did God picked Mirjam to have a Son Messiah (according to Christianity), Could God just have thrown the dice and picked any non-virgin with a lot of sins, for he has no favorite???
5. Acc. to the ChristianTestament, only 1 has the right at the end of days to open the bookscrolls.
6. Acc. to the ChristianTestamen some people will be called small in the heavens, and some will be called ''great'', depending on how much they gave good learning/witness of being a reflection of God.
7. Egypt has the promise on the end of days to get salvation etc. Babylon and Amalek not.
Those are only a few. Good luck.
1. Chosen or set appart, doens't have mean, favorite.
And Why did God not send Pharao out of Egypt, or every nation at that time?
2. even Jezus had a favorite deciple he loved most (I think it was John).
3. Why than did the deciples send sometimes others away who where not speaking the complete truth. Even deciples had their favorites...
4. Why did God picked Mirjam to have a Son Messiah (according to Christianity), Could God just have thrown the dice and picked any non-virgin with a lot of sins, for he has no favorite???
5. Acc. to the ChristianTestament, only 1 has the right at the end of days to open the bookscrolls.
6. Acc. to the ChristianTestamen some people will be called small in the heavens, and some will be called ''great'', depending on how much they gave good learning/witness of being a reflection of God.
7. Egypt has the promise on the end of days to get salvation etc. Babylon and Amalek not.
Those are only a few. Good luck.
12-02-2008, 10:57 AM
My brothers have said it all.
I can only add that Israel is special in that God revealed Himself to them and they faithfully kept His word.
But, IMO, they were chosen for one reason: Yeshua HaMashiach. The supreme purpose, and the apex, of Israel.
See this....my favorite!! World Changers approx 20 mins
I can only add that Israel is special in that God revealed Himself to them and they faithfully kept His word.
But, IMO, they were chosen for one reason: Yeshua HaMashiach. The supreme purpose, and the apex, of Israel.
See this....my favorite!! World Changers approx 20 mins
12-02-2008, 12:24 PM
There are instances where Paul classed people into two groups, Jew- those that believed in Yahweh (believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Yacob), and Gentile- Those that didn't believe
in Yahweh. One God of the Jews is One God of the Gentiles for all who believe. (Isaiah 42) A light nto the Gentiles.
I think Jew, I think Abraham, Father of many nations coming from the land, Ur of the Chaldees. Only doing what God asked. Because of God's favour there was oppression, slavery. Yet God raised up a leader Moshe to lead his people to the land of the fulfillment of the promise, Canaan.
Now Israel.
Out of the tribe of Judah there sprang a young boy from Nazareth named Y'shua, born in Bethlehem, who was the promised Messiah, spoken of and seen during Daniel's captivity, and prophesied by Micah.
Descended from the tribe of Judah, born of the virgin Mary, he gave his life a ransom for many, crucified under Pontius Pilate, died and rose again the third day, according to the scriptures. Paying with His life the price of sin, mankind could not pay.
God so loved us that He gave His One and only Son, Y'shua (Christ Jesus) that whosoever would believe in Him has passed from death unto life eternal.
Peace to you, and Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah.
in Yahweh. One God of the Jews is One God of the Gentiles for all who believe. (Isaiah 42) A light nto the Gentiles.
I think Jew, I think Abraham, Father of many nations coming from the land, Ur of the Chaldees. Only doing what God asked. Because of God's favour there was oppression, slavery. Yet God raised up a leader Moshe to lead his people to the land of the fulfillment of the promise, Canaan.
Now Israel.
Out of the tribe of Judah there sprang a young boy from Nazareth named Y'shua, born in Bethlehem, who was the promised Messiah, spoken of and seen during Daniel's captivity, and prophesied by Micah.
Descended from the tribe of Judah, born of the virgin Mary, he gave his life a ransom for many, crucified under Pontius Pilate, died and rose again the third day, according to the scriptures. Paying with His life the price of sin, mankind could not pay.
God so loved us that He gave His One and only Son, Y'shua (Christ Jesus) that whosoever would believe in Him has passed from death unto life eternal.
Peace to you, and Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah.
12-04-2008, 01:39 PM
I have more than 2 cents on this one. Scripture says God chose Israel to show His strength, His love, and his ability to bless through them. It's simple, everyone that cursed Israel as Israel served God, recieved a curse in return. Everyone that blessed them while they were serving God recieved a blessing.
The purpose of all this process of blessing and cursing was so that people could see God's way (Yahweh's) way is the right way.The actual promise was realized in Christ (Y'shua MY Lord), as foreshadowed by Abraham and Isaac.
The Holy scriptures show the God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob was not a lifeless piece of wood or metal (silver or gold) conjured up by some jack leg witchdoctor who wanted a bunch of kids and a threshing floor full of wheat, dates and figs.
Keep in mind- until this sect- "christianity", resurrection from the dead was unheard of.
Jehovah Shalom
The purpose of all this process of blessing and cursing was so that people could see God's way (Yahweh's) way is the right way.The actual promise was realized in Christ (Y'shua MY Lord), as foreshadowed by Abraham and Isaac.
The Holy scriptures show the God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob was not a lifeless piece of wood or metal (silver or gold) conjured up by some jack leg witchdoctor who wanted a bunch of kids and a threshing floor full of wheat, dates and figs.
Keep in mind- until this sect- "christianity", resurrection from the dead was unheard of.
Jehovah Shalom