Another thing WK
you can read this
http://www.sunpoint.net/~tasrk/artikkeli...S-JB-3.doc
1. it clear just because someone may of knew the apostles does not mean everything they say is true.
We have people deny Jesus was literal human witch is as old as The Nt it self John and paul fought against Gnostic belief.
They even debate If some of The people mention in The NT which follow the apostles have fallen in Gnostic beliefs.
here someting esle WK
NT- baptism right away
church fathers- delay
NT must confess Jesus is Lord-baptism
church fathers- must confess all kinds of creeds and pray before baptism
NT= somone was always ready to baptism somone they did not have to have a degree to aprove they can but the only thing is they must already Belive and confess jesus
church fathers- you have to wait for someone to baptism you often 2-3 years they must be aprove by there own sect of Christianty.
i can go on and On adn we can see on some thing The church fathers had infact sway from sound doctrine.
Krisi:
Maybe you should check a little bit closer:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized (Paul)
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name
1Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. (Paul did baptize)
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Seems to me water baptism was important and still is...as the verse at the beginnign says...if you believe you will be baptized if not you will be damned....seems clear to me...there is no other way...baptism in Jesus Name ergo...
Krisi:
Maybe you should check a little bit closer:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized (Paul)
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name
1Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. (Paul did baptize)
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Seems to me water baptism was important and still is...as the verse at the beginnign says...if you believe you will be baptized if not you will be damned....seems clear to me...there is no other way...baptism in Jesus Name ergo...
yep scripture is clear when they believe peter/paul words they were saved at that point and that the reason they were baptism.
read acts 10 if it because the gentiles believe peter the HG fell on them on that point.
as for acts 8 these people were not brought forth from the ot to The NT.
they only knew the baptism of John which is The promise of The coming messiah.
The people under the OT did infact believe but they were not in the Nt.
when The apostles put there hands on them The spirit came and indwell in them.
Today thou no one is born under the OT this type of receiving the HG is not in affect.
Today people can whereever they are because we are all born now under the NT can truely believe and repent for The spirit.
No, prophet, MAYBE you should actually read my posts because I have already addresses ALL of these verses!!! What you said in the end is so true though....if you believe you are baptized, if not you are damned....yes, He baptizes us...not man.
I also see that no one has been able to answer my questions....
An attempt at the theif (but not a good one)..so what about the other questions????
You know I just fully realized what you are trying to say...so let's break it down step by step for everyone and see if this is actually what you are saying...
1. Jesus made an "exception" to the thief...so can we safely ASSUME he would make that "exception" again to someone dying on a death bed, just got in accident, etc. who physically cannot be baptized???
2. Yes, Paul baptized in the water (but very minimal...), and he didn't think it to be a big deal, he was glad he stopped, he realized the truth, he knew he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
3. You admit the Holy Spirit fell on the people as the word was preached...you typed the scripture. Then they were baptized in water. So are you telling me that the Holy Spirit is not what saves you? Are you actually telling me that after you receive the Holy Spirit (the gift of grace thru Jesus Christ dying for our sins, resurrecting from the dead, and leaving so we can recieve this precious gift) is not what saves us...we have to then be baptized in water...because that is not good enough?? Are you telling me that when John says "I baptize in water, but He will baptize with the Spirit"...and he says he will need to be lessened, and Jesus will need to be increased....that this is not what was realized by the apostles when the Spirit was given to the Gentiles??? So another words, you are 100% saying that the Holy Spirit is NOT what saves us.... WOW, I'm not sure you are saved.... this was the WHOLE ENTIRE reason Jesus did everything for us...Like Paul said, add anything to it and you make it no effect....
Anyone can be "baptized in water"....it's an act of man...this doesn't show your heart...no one can judge your heart (which makes me want to take back what I said about you not being saved, but it is truly important you know what saves you..so I won't erase that), the only one who knows your true heart is God, and that is why HE is the ONLY ONE who can baptize you...
The Word of God is like-
Fire that purifies us.
-Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord. Jer. 23:29
A hammer that breaks the strongholds of sin.
-...and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Jer.23:29
A looking glass or mirror that shows our sin spots.
-For if any be a hearer or the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and...forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therin,...shall be blessed in his deed. James 1:23-25
The Sword of the Spirit helps us fight Santanic warfare.
-Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God...the swod of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph.6:13,17
Water that washes and cleanes the believer.
-That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. Eph. 5:26
Milk spiritually nourishes the new believer.
-As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby. 1 Peter 2:2
Seed that is planted in the soul.
-But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit. Matthew 13:23
Honey that is sweet to the taste.
-How sweet are thy words unto my taste! Yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth. Psa. 119:103
Gold- it is more precious than gold.
-More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much find gold. Psa.19:10 continued
No, prophet, MAYBE you should actually read my posts because I have already addresses ALL of these verses!!! What you said in the end is so true though....if you believe you are baptized, if not you are damned....yes, He baptizes us...not man.
Krisi - I suggest you read and reflect on The Great Commision (Mt. 28:19). Jesus commands the Apostles to make disciples of all nations. What specifically does he command the Apostles to do?
1) Baptize them in the Trinitarian Formula
2) Teach them to observe all that Jesus commanded
So as part of making disciples of all nations, Jesus commands the Apostles to baptize them. If by believing you are baptized, why does Jesus command the Apostles to perform water baptism? Note that this cannot be a "spiritual" baptism because this verse would imply that the Apostles had the power to give the gift of the Holy Spirit, which only God can do.
The Evangelical Protestant tradition of “spiritual baptism” is completely inconsistent with this verse. The more appropriate view, consistent with the rest of scripture and what the Apostles handed down as recorded in the early church writings, is that baptism is the physical means by which God confers graces needed for salvation. So in this verse, it is clear that while the physical act of baptism is performed by man, the graces conferred are by God. It is an act of God, administered through the “hands and feet” of men. Throughout salvation history, God has always worked through physical means to confer grace. This is the reality of our Incarnational faith. Jesus Christ, through his incarnation and resurrection, bridged the gap between the spiritual divine nature and human nature.