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Ok.  So maybe the title to this post sounds like i'm lifting up the nation more than i'm lifting up the God of that nation.

HOWEVER, i can prove that non-jewish Believers in Jesus SHOULD support Israel AND LOOK to Israel in our attempts to learn more about our God, by showing this in the Bible:

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non-Jewish Believers in Jesus should support Israel:

God speaking to Israel is this passage:

Isaiah 60:12 (KJV) 12  For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.  
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It is prophetically accurate to state that the destiny of the Believer in Jesus is to support Israel:

Isaiah 49:22 (KJV) 22  Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.  
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It is prophetically accurate to state that non-jewish Believers in Jesus should follow Israel's lead in seeking the LORD:

Zechariah 8:21 (KJV) 21And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.  

Zechariah 8:22 (KJV) 22Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.  

Zechariah 8:23 (KJV) 23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
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Paul let the Christian know that when they would "receive" Messianic Jews as their brethren, then it would be like "Life from the Dead" for the Christian's faith.

In other words, when the Christian looks back to Israel in their quest to find God, there would be a resurrection of their faith !!!

Shown here:

Romans 11:15 (KJV) 15  For if the casting away of them [the Jews] be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?  
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Jesus tried to remind us that God, in His wisdom, CHOSE Israel to be the Recorders and Proclaimers of His Message to the World:

John 4:22 (KJV) 22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  
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If we as Christians hope for God to save us,
how encouraging it would be to our faith to see
God save Israel
Because God promised salvation to Israel FIRST.

If we do not hope to see Israel's salvation fulfilled
as God had promised first so long ago,
Then how could we hope for our own salvation ?

Indeed, we who are Goyim are called to support Israel in prayer, in good deeds, in moral support.  As believers in Yeshua, we won't be around to see the salvation of Israel on this side / in this dimension. Our salvation is in G-D, in Yeshua...not in Israel proper.

We Goyim give to Israel and support the Jewish people because of our love to HASHEM.  We give because of our acknowledging the Prodigal Son is just as much a member of the family as we, and has the right to one day receive a chiefer inheritance with chiefer responsibilities.  

The Church needs to look at Israel as a kid brother does to an older brother who has strayed.  The kid brother is obedient to the Father, but still loves and prays for and rejoices in the older brother beacuse he is part of his family (not in his acts).  Both brothers are sons, but the older brother tends to despise the kid brother time to time, because the Father's affection is so well placed upon the boy.  Even so, after almost 2,000 years, the kid brother has come of age, only the older brother can't wrap his mind around it being so.

When a Jew comes to Yeshua, he is as the returning Prodigal.  When the Jew remains hostile, he is as the Prodigal still not having spent his inheritance, making merry with those who simply want to get money and fringe benefits (any gifts or talents) they can from him.  We all pray for the return of the son to the Father, and to us also.  Such is Israel and the Church in one analogy.  

God's promise to Israel is eternal...I am with Him....

absolutely it does!



which israel? the one you are trying to lift up or the one that followed messiah jesus?
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so far this has only happened thru christ. so it look to me that the israel that followed jesus makes this passage true. they brought their sons and daughters to the promised land.

i thought torah was truth??? can somebody tell me what is this 'standard' that is going to be set up?  is that the gospel? if so then, what about the torah standards??




how do you say that judaist israel has the lead in following the lord? they may have the lead in followng the beast of babylon or the lead in following the culture and traditions of a destroyed temple.

Zechariah 8:21 (KJV) 21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.  

Zechariah 8:22 (KJV) 22Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.  

Zechariah 8:23 (KJV) 23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. [/quote]

isnt that what happened? arent we talking "jesus effect" here?  yes!   i think we are..
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he did?.



i dont want look back. i might turn into a pillar of salt. backsliding is not anything im interested in. moses didnt bring the children down from abrahams mountain so that he could lead them back to egypt and after seeing jesus pull jews out of that crumbling temple, im certainly not goin back to it no matter what israel you trying to build it in. .



for shame.....you left out 4.21. " the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, NOR AT JERUSALEM , worship the Father."

If we as Christians hope for God to save us,
how encouraging it would be to our faith to see
God save Israel
Because God promised salvation to Israel FIRST.

If we do not hope to see Israel's salvation fulfilled
as God had promised first so long ago,
Then how could we hope for our own salvation ?[/quote]

god already filled his promise and saved the israel that was. the israel that is now the state,the rabbinic israel was 'cut off' after seventy weeks. they must come in thru christ now. GOD FILLED HIS PROMISE TO HIS PEOPLE. HE IS NOT GOING TO FILL IT BUT HE HAS ALREADY FILLED IT.

loving ones country is nothing wrong in it. you make sound like loving the new state is a prerequiste to salvation.  tut-tut  you didnt mean that did you?

dont worry about her. she is strong and even the first world countries dont want to mess with her. just pray for the peace. no matter how strong she is or how much support you give, osama bin laden and company will not respect.

[/quote]

David, what an absoulte blasphemy you wrote. "which israel? the one you are trying to lift up or the one that followed messiah jesus?" Are you going to say that Jesus didn't follow Himself now? Jesus chose Israel, was an Israelite, and came to earth through the womb of an Israelite.

Israel is both physical and spiritual. I don't know how much you read your Bible, but you may actually want to pick it up.

[size=small]quote=GoyOfY'shua]



Israel is both physical and spiritual. I don't know how much you read your Bible, but you may actually want to pick it up.
[/quote]

you call me blasphemer because i asked you "which israel?", and now you are advicing me that there are two israels and that i need to read the bible? i think you too much goy sauce on you chow mein.

    "Ok.  So maybe the title to this post sounds like i'm lifting up the nation more than i'm lifting up the God of that nation.

HOWEVER, i can prove that non-jewish Believers in Jesus SHOULD support Israel AND LOOK to Israel in our attempts to learn more about our God, by showing this in the Bible:"


Hmmm. What does Jesus have to say about this?

  "Jerusalem, Jerusalem! thou who killest the prophets, and stonest those who are sent to thee! How often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen gathers her young under her wings, but thou wouldst not! Behold your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth until you shall say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"   St. Matt. 23: 37-39

   So we see, that, although Israel is gathered together according to prophecy, it is yet in unbelief. The nation of Israel is to be the beginning of G-D's kingdom on earth, according to election, according to the promise to our father Abraham.

  As St. Paul puts it. For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits, that a partial blindness has only befallen Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles should enter, and thus all Israel should be saved, as it is written, There will come out of Sion the deliverer and he will turn away impiety from Jacob; and this is my covenant with them, when I shall take away their sins.
  In view of the Gospel, they are enemies for your sake; but in view of the divine choice, THEY ARE MOST DEAR FOR THE SAKE OF THE FATHERS. For the gifts and the call of G-D are without repentance.    RO. 11: 25-28; Isa. 59:20-21        

  So indeed, pray for the Jew! That they accept Jesus as their personal Savior and be grafted back in to the cultivated olive tree.

  Remember the warning as concerning the Kingdom!
    "I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him."  Ez. 21: 27

1st Millennium AM 2148 (BC 1904)  Overturned;  Bethel (Jacob's Ladder)

2nd Millennium AM 4048 (BC 4)  Overturned;  Birth of Jesus

3rd Millennium   AM 5948 (AD 1896)  Zionism; Restoration of Israel
        
     Will it be overturned????


    SHALOM!
     RA
                    
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To ReJoiCe!

"[i]Zechariah 8:23 (KJV) 23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that "ten men" shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

    It is found in writing concerning the Spartens and the Jews, that they are brethren, and that they are of the stock of Abraham.              
(l Mac. 12: 21)

   Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?  (Jn. 7: 35)

  Let's see, since the Kingdom of Israel fell in AM 3444 (BC 608), 2,614 years ago, and thoroughly scattered amongst the heathen (goy),their identities being lost, would be considered Gentiles today. G-D promised that when he regathered Israel that not a single seed would be lost.
Now called "Christians", these "10 men" (as stemming from the 10 tribes of Israel), their time being fulfilled, will convert the Jew. So then ALL Israel will be saved.
  
  I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved...
  As far as the Gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as Election is concerned they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for G-D's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Ro. 11: 25 - 29

    This is the Covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts.
I will be their G-D, and they will be my people.  Heb. 8: 10


     "Man learns from history only that he learns nothing from history!"

                   SALEM!
                      RA