My name is Daniel. I am a Christian who has some questions that needs answering. I am in a place where I am in question of some of the practices that I grew up with. Somethings that were taught to me, but hindered my growth in Christ as well as others.
My question is concerning the Sabbath. There have been many writings and articles that state that the Sabbath is no longer something to be observed. I have been told by other Jews (
http://forums.torah.org) that the Sabbath is something that was not meant for the Christians to observe and they are not to observe it.
Now I grew up worshiping on the Sabbath and I rather enjoy giving God Praise on the day in which He has set aside as a day of rest, but where I conflict in my spirit with is all of the rules that have been associated with the Sabbath day of worship.
Can someone help me to sort all of this out. I know that the Sabbath was the day that God set aside to rest, and that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. I understand all of this, but my question is more so what is required of one on this Day (the Sabbath)? What are the do's and don't concerning the Sabbath? What is permissible to do and what is not permissible to do? And I need scriptural references. Please do not give me opinions... I need scriptural facts with references.
I grow tired of opinions that are not based off of biblical facts and principles. I do apologize for being so forward with this, but I need to know.
Hi Daniel,
The first thing I want to do is to put your mind at ease, so I offer the following scripture:
Romans 14:6 (NKJV)
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
(emphasis mine)
Whenever I struggle I look to Jesus, who fullfilled the Law for me so that by faith I can attain righteousness. We also know that there is no condemnation to those who are in Jesus (Romans 8:1). I think that is really the issue. It's not so much whether we should observe the Sabbath or not, but it is about being condemned if we choose the wrong action.
I would recommend reading Romans chapter 8. There you will find that we are "free from the law of sin and death." I don't mean to say that you don't need to observe the Sabbath, but that you are free to observe the Sabbath if you wish, but not condemned if you don't.
Shalom dbethea
Actiually it is quite simpel.
I'm Jewish myself, so I know what they ''mean''. And because of my Czech background I understand claims also more from some Sabbateans who started there centuries ago.
First of all: non-Jews are also never commanded to do something on Sunday or Friday. I didn't find it in our Bible, nor in the Christian Testament, nor in the Koran. Nor in any other source, except for those who claim that Sunday came instead of Saterday, but that where some churches. In Koran is 1 source for Friday, but not to replace Shabbath.
Secondly, God rested on Shabbath. So it is also HIS day. And everybody who feels connected to the same God can to something... A lot of Noachites keep a certain way of Shabbath agreed upon with Rabbi's.
For the rest it was commanded to Abraham (not jet realy Jewish) and his household, animals etc. (So for Arabs who came by blood from Abraham, there might be the same included kind of commandment of Shabbath).
Thirdly, what Jews mainly have as typically Jewish not-done things on Shabbath, is from a total other source. That we should not do Temple work on Shabbath. And some tribes, or priests had exceptions. So for example not writing on Shabbath is commanded to Jews.
Often when non-Jews start to take over these kind of Laws, it looks like stealing, or claiming the same commandment. That is first of all not true that a non-Jew is commanded like that, and considered Weird. It's also not more Holy etc.
So what most Jews should ask is not to act Jewish on Shabbath, for otherwise it looks like you're also preparing to take our customs, building our Tempel etc.
So as a Jew I think that all people can keep shabbath in a resting kind of manor. But They can't clame that all kind of things are commanded to them. Not all Jews delved into all kind of Laws, and that's why maybe some Jews simply might say, that others shouldn't keep shabbath... But the LAW is ''not in our way, manor, tradition, with our laws, we got from God.''.
Be well.
dbethea~
First of all, welcome to the JFJ forum!!
Now..
I have been told by other Jews (
http://forums.torah.org) that the Sabbath is something that was not meant for the Christians to observe and they are not to observe it.
Most observant Jews will tell you that we don't need to concern ourselves with anything having to do with Torah, and that all we gentiles need to concern ourselves with is the Noahidic Laws. I don't find that in the Bible. I see two groups of people His and Not His. Lost or saved. In the OT that meant Jews (His) and gentiles (Not His).
But we Messianic believers (Jew and gentile) aren't under the yoke of the Law, we are yoked by grace to be obedient to the moral code He has given us in the NT, not for salvation but "unto good works". (I will let Messianic Jews be lead by the Holy Spirit as to how observant to the rest (Kosher, etc) they are compelled to follow. That is a matter between them and the LORD as far as I am concerned. But when we stand before God we all will be judged by Torah, either complete/perfect obedience or under His provided atonement: Jesus. So, I don't agree with the Noahidic "ruling" about gentiles.)
As for Sabbath, I am one who feels (by study) that it was a universal command. Sabbath was consecrated
on the 7th day of creation, not at Sinai. It is, to me, as foundational as man's fall, marriage, God's sovereignty, and the creation account. All apply to
mankind, not Israel only. I also feel that Sunday is an anti-Semitic invention of the RCC, and this is my conclusion after a LOT of scripture study on the subject.
Of course,
none of it is about gaining our own salvation, it is a matter of being obedient, *IMO*, as with even the other moral Laws we are called to be obedient to.
You can read all about THAT in
THIS THREAD...but see that it is not a "settled matter" in Christiandom.
-cont-
-cont-
As the scripture says,
"One person considers some days more holy than others, while someone else regards them as being all alike. What is important is for each to be fully convinced in his own mind. " Romans 14:5 CJB
The question you posed: "the rules"? There are *no rules* set forth for Sabbath outside of what was given to Moses at Sinai. It was set apart and made holy in Genesis, but nothing more than that is given to us until Exodus/Sinai. So, what you ARE going to get
is opinion.
If you go by the 10 Commandments, then it is simply "don't work, or compel someone else to work". No other "rules" given than that:
"Remember the day, Shabbat, to set it apart for God. You have six days to labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the foreigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. For in six days, ADONAI made heaven and earth, the sea and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. This is why ADONAI blessed the day, Shabbat, and separated it for himself. Ex. 20:8-11 CJB
So, I would put any "rules" pertaining to Sabbath under the "convinced in your own mind" as well...like the food, etc, also mentioned in Rom. 14. And we aren't to put our convictions on others as if they are "rules for all"...sometimes
they are individual to us. (Drinking alcohol would be one example. For some it is sin, for others it's not.) Let the LORD lead.
First I would like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and honoring my request by providing scriptures when presenting their case. This has really helped me to see things a little clearer, but I am still at bay with somethings.
Ripley, you stated in your post that the 4th commandment "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy. Six days shall thy do thy labor, but on the 7th day thou shall not do any work". My emphasizes is on the word "work" for many reasons.
In the past this scripture has tripped many of my peers up and even myself because what is the definition of "work"? Is this a regular 9-to-5 type job, or is this cooking, cleaning, or preparing a meal for some one? What is the true definition of this word "WORK"
I was brought up in a church who believed in worshiping on the Sabbath, but they also did not believe in cooking on the Sabbath because some deemed that as work. Others seen it as one lighting a fire on the Sabbath which I believe is observed by Orthodox Jews (correct me if I am wrong). We have been condemned if we were caught speaking/talking about anything outside of Christ. We were not allowed to do any money exchanges on the Sabbath as well... So growing up in this type of environment really makes me question our focus as a church body. Are we focusing our attention too much on the Law and missing the mark or are we doing what God wants us to do?
To me it appears as if we are missing the mark, but. Right now lets focus on one thing at a time. The word "WORK" and its definition.
Once again... I need scriptural references.... Thank you.
dbethea~
Right now lets focus on one thing at a time. The word "WORK" and its definition.
Well, now you are delving into the legalistic...LOL...and exactly what the Pharisees of Jesus' time, and today's Talmudists do.
"What is work?" "How many steps?" "Turning on a light?" etc, etc, ad infinitum.
All I can say to you is that when God wants
exact "a, b, c", from EVERYONE, He tells us. When He doesn't, He doesn't expect it.
So, *IMO*, because there is no scripture to define it, FOR NON-JEWS, "work" is in the eye of the beholder. For some cooking is leisure, for some it is work. If it is "work"
to you, then don't do it. Same for gardening. Same for making model planes with your kids. Or flying a kite. Or going on a hike. Typing on a computer. All of them CAN BE work, but also don't have to be...and can be set apart to/for Him. (Like talking about creation when on a hike, or making a model, with kids, or just between you and God, if one doesn't have kids. It can be VERY HOLY!)
Let Him lead you directly. (If you are married, pray with your spouse about it so that the LORD speaks to you both about His direction for your family.)
And
remember that
our TRUE SABBATH is Jesus. (Hebrews 4) Because of Him we have REST FROM OUR LABORS...of trying to be perfectly righteous by following rules, on ANY day. So, don't impose your convictions on others (other families, of course you are the priest of
your home...and I am a woman saying this) and bask EVERY DAY in His grace/rest.
I know you want to avoid opinion, but if God had outlined it clearly in scripture, I wouldn't have to offer opinion, and you probably wouldn't even be asking the question. So, the best I can offer is how the LORD has lead ME on the issue. We are called to obedience, but not legalistic obedience.
Amen?
Shalom dbethea, Perhaps this will help:
BDB:
H4399
îìàëä
melâ'kâh
BDB Definition:
1) occupation, work, business
1a) occupation, business
1b) property
1c) work (something done or made)
1d) workmanship
1e) service, use
1f) public business
1f1) political
1f2) religious
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from the same as H4397
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1068b
KJC:
H4399
îìàëä
melâ'kâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 168
work, 127
Gen_2:2-3 (3), Exo_12:16, Exo_20:9-10 (2), Exo_31:14-15 (3), Exo_34:21, Exo_35:2 (2), Exo_35:21, Exo_35:24, Exo_35:29, Exo_35:33, Exo_35:35 (2), Exo_36:1-8 (9), Exo_38:24 (2), Exo_39:43, Exo_40:33, Lev_11:32, Lev_13:51, Lev_16:29, Lev_23:3 (2), Lev_23:7-8 (2), Lev_23:21, Lev_23:25, Lev_23:28, Lev_23:30-31 (2), Lev_23:35-36 (2), Num_4:3, Num_28:18, Num_28:25-26 (2), Num_29:1, Num_29:7, Num_29:12, Num_29:35, Deu_5:13-14 (2), Deu_16:8, 1Ki_5:16 (3), 1Ki_7:14, 1Ki_7:22, 1Ki_7:40, 1Ki_7:51, 1Ki_9:23 (2), 2Ki_12:11, 2Ki_22:5 (2), 2Ki_22:9, 1Ch_4:23, 1Ch_6:49, 1Ch_9:13, 1Ch_9:19, 1Ch_9:33, 1Ch_22:15, 1Ch_23:4, 1Ch_23:24, 1Ch_27:26, 1Ch_28:13, 1Ch_28:20, 1Ch_29:1, 1Ch_29:5-6 (2), 2Ch_4:11, 2Ch_5:1, 2Ch_8:9, 2Ch_8:16, 2Ch_16:5, 2Ch_24:12-13 (2), 2Ch_29:34, 2Ch_34:12-13 (2), Ezr_2:69, Ezr_3:8, Ezr_6:22, Ezr_10:13, Neh_2:16, Neh_4:11, Neh_4:15-17 (3), Neh_4:19, Neh_4:21, Neh_5:16 (2), Neh_6:3 (2), Neh_6:9, Neh_6:16, Neh_7:70-71 (2), Neh_10:33, Neh_11:12, Neh_13:10, Pro_18:9, Pro_24:27, Jer_17:22, Jer_17:24, Jer_18:3, Jer_48:10, Jer_50:25, Eze_15:3-5 (4), Hag_1:14
business, 12
Gen_39:11, 1Ch_26:29-30 (2), 2Ch_13:10, 2Ch_17:13, Neh_11:16, Neh_11:22, Neh_13:30, Est_3:9, Psa_107:23, Pro_22:29, Dan_8:27
workmen, 9
2Ki_12:14-15 (2), 1Ch_22:15, 1Ch_25:1, 2Ch_24:13, 2Ch_34:10 (2), 2Ch_34:17, Ezr_3:9
workmanship, 5
Exo_31:3, Exo_31:5, Exo_35:31, 1Ch_28:21, Eze_28:13
works, 3
1Ki_7:14, 1Ch_28:19, Psa_73:28
goods, 2
Exo_22:8, Exo_22:11
thing, 2
Lev_13:48, 1Sa_15:9
cattle, 1
Gen_33:14
industrious, 1
1Ki_11:28
labour, 1
Neh_4:22
made, 1
Lev_13:48
occupation, 1
Jon_1:8
occupied, 1
Jdg_16:11
stuff, 1
Exo_36:7
use, 1
Lev_7:24
Strong:
H4399
îìàëä
melâ'kâh
mel-aw-kaw'
From the same as H4397; properly deputyship, that is, ministry; generally employment (never servile) or work (abstractly or concretely); also property (as the result of labor): - business, + cattle, + industrious, occupation, (+ -pied), + officer, thing (made), use, (manner of) work ([-man], -manship).
In Messiah, His Shalom, and wisdom. Arley