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Part 1)System would not allow me to post. Too long:

Okay,  So I'm a dumb gentile. And want to cause trouble and open up a can of worms. I want know what is really going on between Christians. So what is the Hebraic roots stuff"?

So what is this "Christians need to get back to their Hebraic roots: stuff

I'm hearing this mostly from unbelieving Jews like Tovia Singer Or Yeshi Fleisher.

Then, I'm hearing this from believing Jews like "Good News for Israel".

"Christians need to get back to their Hebraic roots." So....Just when did it cease to be "Hebraic", since it can from the Hebrew God? The one and only true God and His only begotten Son Y'shua. So we need to learn Hebrew to have a better understanding of the Tanach portion of the bible, huh? Can one still be saved without learning Hebrew first? Good luck trying to get people to learn Hebrew first. Who can be saved?

Hmmmm.. But you know what that means.... It means involving some practices of the Torah. As though the Torah had been cast away by gentiles Messiaen's/Christians. And as though one can obtain righteousness by observing the law, anyway. (Acts 15 ) Then "Every Christian needs a Rabbi!" But that would mean we would be obtaining our righteousness by observing the law.  Not that Y'shua  was the fulfilled of the law. In fact, was the Law. "Every Christian needs Rabbi!" Even though we are not supposed call any man Father or Rabbi.

So let's start with this:
John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

Christ/Messiah, "a light unto the gentiles". and, "A people that sat in darkness has seen a great light!"

And yet, I see Messiaen's "Christ", Greek term, distance themselves from calling themselves "Christian". But are we not of the same Lord/Adoni?  There is neither Jew or Greek, by all in Christ (Messiah) Jesus (Yeshua). The Gospel is first for Jew, then for the Greek also. As though today's Christians have some how gentilized the faith. No, it is what God/Yahweh always wanted. Without idols. The Former Practices was to separate Hebrews from the gentles and their false gods. And from the detestable practices of the gentiles. But their is still so few Jews today do who still do not understand that Y'shua is the promised Messiah.

Now, lets take European gentile gods. The very word "Europa" is a god.  The Gods of the Greeks and Romans would be Venus,  Romulus, Pan or Zeus, or Apollo. Homosexual gods too. Even though the Romans and Greeks were progressive and believing in philosophy and virtue in the works of Man. They were very much idol worshippers and open homosexuals.

End part 1

I think what you may be negating is the anti-Semitic history of "the church" and that even Jews who embraced Jesus were forced to give up all things Jewish. Even the Apostles did not "become gentiles"...they retained their "Jewish identity".

Yes, there has been a new wall erected that Christ tore down on the cross, but it was erected by gentile followers (or so they called themselves). New "gentile law" of righteousness, that replaced the legalism that we were supposed to be free from, enforced with public torture and death...

The term "Christian" brings to mind those centuries of SEVERE persecution for many. So, I understand it. How Islam is today is how the Holy Roman Empire was "yesterday": world domination, oppression, murder, possession of land, extortion of other world leaders, etc. You need to really understand that. Denounce it as anti-Chirst, because it was/is. Same goes for Martin Luther who remained a vehement anti-Semite even with his understanding of grace-not-works theology.

It is not important what we call ourselves. The important thing is our relationship with Messiah. So, "Messianic"? Fine! "Christian"? Good! However, there are many who call themselves by either of those "names" and aren't His at all: Mormons, JWs, The Way International, Oneness, Christian Scientists, etc, etc, etc.

Our faith in our Savior should supersede "titles" and celebrate the freedom He has given us to *BE* Jews or gentiles, male or female, slaves or free, IN HIM.

To Ripley Part one (to long to post)

"I think what you may be negating is the anti-Semitic history of "the church" and that even Jews who embraced Jesus were first made Jews by Circumcision. Even the Apostles did not "become gentiles"...they retained their "Jewish identity"."

No....Anti Semitism had nothing to do with it. But, if you recall in the New Testament. Gentiles had to convert and fellowship customs. Act 15, Galatians. Paul's took Peter on about this. They went to Church leaders in Jerusalem. Straighten out every contention. Later Peter himself confirmed what Paul said,2 Peter 3:15-17.

But I can see why a Jew would not want to becalled a Christian. But in essence it's the same thing. Just in the Greek. (more to say)

I also. Many Messiaen's in Israel will not call themselves Christian and will no association with Christian Church. Personally, I think all Christian Churches should be more supportive of Jewish Christians.

I disagree with you about it not being important what we call ourselves too. The Term "Christian" does appear in the New Testament 3 times. And Jews and Gentiles suffered Persecution for it. But it does not matter whether you call yourself Christian or Messiah. But it does matter to Lord if we disown him. Every Christian should call himself a Messiaen or a Christian to let the world know we are His Children and love each other. For their is neither Jew nor Greek but one in Christ Jesus.

As for Mormons and Jehovah's Witness. These impostors, are trying to decieve. The Mormon names comes from Morni, in Satanism he is god of the under world.  Jehovah Witness not only contradict themselves by calling themselves "Jehovah Witness", denying that even Christian. Because they hate the name. I have read in many of their publication, especially in 90s. Every 4 months they would sat that the Christians worship a three headed God. They have very anti Christ spirit. They Do not believe Jesus is God. And that he rose from the dead in his flesh. 1John 4:3. Besides their constantly teaching and arguing that Jesus is not God the Son. At times they will call themselves Christians to deceive Christians. But really want to take a way the Lord'  Deity. There are always going to false Christians claiming to be Christians. Should we stop calling ourselves Christian (Christ Lead) because of these usurpers?

DannyGirl,
The fact of the matter is, if you understood the Hebrew language, you would see the Hebrew bible in a whole new light. You would see the connections of the words, the roots of the words, and how they reference other words. You could study it for years upon years and find new connections all the time.

So it's not as if you must learn Hebrew, it's just that there are so many things missing if you don't understand it.

The reason why most ex-pastors and ex-xtians who were very deeply rooted in xtianity have converted to Judaism, is because they have discovered a whole new meaning by understanding the Hebrew it is written in.

That's my take anyway, for whatever it's worth!

I think what you may be negating is the anti-Semitic history of "the church" and that even Jews who embraced Jesus were forced to give up all things Jewish. Even the Apostles did not "become gentiles"...they retained their "Jewish identity".

Getting back to Anti Semtism as a valid reason

1) Let's start with Luther.
A-There is no excuse for Luther's Anti Semitic behavior
B-Luther put his flesh before his Loyalty and love to the king of the Kings. He should loves the Jews that rejected the Goespel for the Lord sake.
C- Still bond by  the past teachiings of Catholism.
D- He caused the death of Protestants too.
E- He became a very hard man. Even some Christians will demostrated a Anti Christ Spirit when pride comes in.

But the Reformation set all us free. None of would have the Word or God in our houses.

All Anti Semitism Comes from Rome. Luther got his Philosphy from them it goes bcak to Church father, Although none are my father, than you very much.

A- I here this excuse of this from Jews. They reject Y'shua because past Christian persecution. But everyone is very chumy with Rome. Modern Israel is very Chumy with Roman. And, to my surprize throught out Church History, as you put it. There has always been a love hate relationship between unbelieving Jews and the Church of Rome.

B-But now both Jewish believers and unbelieving Jewish beleivers are more Chumy with Rome than ever. Even though the Church of Rome false anti Chrstian Church and a Mother of all Harlots. What is up with that?
C- So, why are Jews still using the past? It's very convient argument when ones does not want to be bothered.

D- There is nothing "Holy" about Rome either. No "Holy Roman" anything. She is filled with dead men's bones.


Danny

Hey Thanks,

So they went back to "Judaism" without Y'shua?  Without their peace? But Y'shua has fulfilled every promise. Even Being reject by his one people and being a Light unto the gentiles.

The Hebrew does not take it away that Y'shua is the Mesiah. I have also read so books by Rabbis. When the talk the Tanch qouting the scriptures in English. It's reads the same King James Version. So English does not take away from the Hebrew.

This "New Meaning" usually involves Kabbalah. While reading these books, whenever a scripture points to the pre-incarnate Christ/Messiah. They always refer the reader to seek this meaning in Kabbalah. This seems very deliberate.

I'm sorry these men have walked away from their Peace. I hope they will come back. Messiah Y'shua. First for the Jew, but all so for gentile.


Danny

DannyGirl,

With all sincerity, when you say "  When the talk the Tanch qouting the scriptures in English. It's reads the same King James Version. So English does not take away from the Hebrew", I have to disagree with you 100%!

Almost any and every language loses something when being interpeted to another. In many cases there aren't even words to translate it to!

As for the converts, Kabbalah had nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact Kabbalah isn't really even taught unless you have over 30 or 40 years of Hebrew study. Maybe some "concepts" here and there, but not real Kabbalah.

I don't know which books you are reading.

And as you might expect, even though you are "sad" these people have left xtianity, I am quite happy!

Thank for the reply.

Dannygirl when I read my bible I usually look up in lexicon if I reading the  Ot I get out a hebrew/lexicon for there meanings if the NT the greek.


The complete jewish bible I think is good one it has The hebrew on one side and the translation into english the other.


I want that bible I saw it from someone else who had One

Dannygirl; I have read your questions and it brings me back to a time I did not believe in any God. My father; An agnostic with a IQ near Einsteins,Knowing every answer to science and Archeology. To believe beyond one self was ;weak! Until I sufferred a severe head trauma, and could not speak, or talk, or hear. There He found me and led me out of that darkness; A white, glassy watery blue, but not blue,like light; stream that flowed into a deep raging river and I awoke. A miracle I am here. I did not know anything about the Bible, just his tender love, and it was Jesus.I have no doubt He is the One Author of the Bible/ The Torah, The G-d of Israel, because I have been there, and I could never believe different, anymore than Abraham, or Moses, or Paul, or Peter; No way do I compare myself to a Saint, but to not believe is to believe then I did not come from death!and am dead?The New Covenant says; they shall all know me; I know Him, and it is not us that find Him, but He that finds us, and leads us deep into His Kingdom of love and roots us back to; Israel; Heaven on Earth to come. If I don't understand, I know the answer is there and will be revealed in His time, Jesus is Love; Believe in Him :and The Bright morning Star shall lead the way!He knows our names, and hears us when when we call! I pray for His peace beyond all understanding for all of you. Pray for me. In His love, Robert

Here's one online: A Hebrew - English Bible

Dannygirl~



It has everything to do with it. You denounce the RCC? Good! Then understand how much they influenced the practice of the faith, and did indeed INTEND to distance themselves (and Christianity) from Judaism. Sunday and Easter only two examples. Complete fabrications of Rome intended to make Christianity visably different from Judaism. (Only they used much harsher words toward Jews when giving reason.) Which is why some of us (even gentiles, like me) desire a return to original Christian pracitce which involves the "Jewish roots" of our faith. Not legalism, but participating in the (true) Holy Days, etc.



If a person wishes to be called Messianic, it is not "disowning" the LORD. That is your premise here. I disagree with your premise. Call ourselves followers of the Way, or bondservants, or children, or heirs, any or all...the thing that is really important is if we have a relationship with Him. And THAT cannot be demonstrated by the mere use of a word. That was my point in bringing up cults. The word in and of itself is meaningless.