JFJ Forums

Many believe in a rapture (some pre-trib and some mid-trib)...however, some believe all have to go through the tribulation and only get taken up after the tribulation. To the ones who believe no one is raptured...do you think when the killings of Christians occur this will have to involve the children?(Is this the ultimate test? Why would G-d make you and your children have to die for him if he knows you believe...he stopped Issac sacrifice). So, I would like to hear all takes on this (of course, only from believers of the New Testament). Why do you believe/don't believe in tribulation? When do you believe it will occur (pre-trib/mid-trib); or why do you not believe in a rapture? Some even go as far as saying there will be a rapture but of the evil people and the good will be left behind. Please give scriptures to refer to when telling why you believe the way you do. Thanks.

Yeshuat Yisrael has a well-prepared exegesis on the End Times and the Rapture. I actually believe, based on the Yeshuat Yisrael study, that that's why President Obama is in office (the one-world government, for example).

To Krisi-One issue is how they break up Revelation with interludes showing heaven and people in white.  I disagree.  ONe example is I think it is Revelation 19:2 says that the saints blood was delivered out of the hand of her.  So then the people in white are alive on earth and not in heaven.  They go from American and all over the world gathered by the 144,000 to Jerusalem.  It is a multitude that sees fire from heaven make all the islands go out of their place like it says in Revelation 6:13 &16:19.  This only happens once and it means the ocean goes down.  That is the only way every Island  could be moved out of it's place.  So it is good news.  The earth will be edenic except for whre the fire hits (JOel 2:3) and your pets will still be alive and live old (ROmans 8:190-22 & Isaiah 11:6ff).

Nobody gets raptured.  THe world rapture is not in the Bible.  BUt snatching up is.

Kings David's last words are that those who refused to be gathered will be burned up in the same place (2 Samuel 23:6,7)

If the ocean is down the multitude can walk from Alaska to RUssia and it will be like Exudus except on grander scale.  

TO YOY-

I looked at the chart of that ministry you brought up.  It  is the same as the traditional dispensationalist rapture theory.

But think of it this way.  Genesis tells the same story twice from a different perspective.  The gospels tell the same story four times.

I think Revelation tells the same story from four different perspectives: 1) The seals are the end time David Princes' perspective.  2) The trumpets are the end time prophets perspective 3) The thunders are the multitude of people's perspective, 4) The bowls are the preists in the Ezekiel's temple perspective.

So, how many times can every mountain and Island be moved out of its place?  See, that happens in the seals and the bowls both, so that ministry's chart is wrong, it has to be the same event from 4 perspectives.

How many times can one third of the earth get burned up?

It would be more mercifull if it was only once.

I believe this is the time to prepare for the rapture. I believe that God has returned and want His people that are cleansed by following His instructions. I believe that God wants us to live in peace but because of the Will of the people they continue to want to live in mishap. I think if the people will do His Ordinance then they shall know what is instore for this world.

krisi~

I believe in a rapture, which MEANS "snatching up". We have two examples in our scriptures already: Enoch and Elijah.

I lean toward pre-Wrath rapture. The entire Tribulation is not God's wrath. Only the second half is. (See Daniel's "weeks".) It is my view that we are not promised to not be subject to, even severe, persecution. Obviously, throught history and even today in other nations, Christians are being tortured and killed (and their children too). But that's not God's Judgement, it's Satan's anger.

With that said, if the Flood is a picture of end times, Enoch was removed/raptured and Noah was protected from God's Wrath. So, I am confident that my LORD will save me by either means. And honestly, I don't think that much about it.

Hi Krisi,
I believe the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture because the rapture takes the believers of this age away, those still under grace, before the judgments of the Trib begin. The Trib deals with "the nations" including Israel. There need be NO purifying of Christians because Christ's blood brought us who believe sanctification once and for all time. As the bride taken away for a honeymoon, so the spotless Bride of Christ will be taken away before the judgment of the earth.

Even in God's judgment of the earth and nations, there will be a remnant saved of Jewish and non-jewish people individuals.

Chowie

Shalom Chowie,

I feel exactly as do you.  I do have a contingency plan, however.

If, wrong, I intend on living my faith, until I graduate individually.  The only thing, I might have to change, in my routine, would be to withdraw from the Forums.  I'm not sure if I could stand the 'crowing' of those Neigh-Sayers, out there, braying about how really stupid we 'Pre-Tribbers' were to want to: "escape."  

You and I know that we will not be 'escaping,' but being rewarded, for having the 'blessing of Faith,' as Jesus cited.  

I feel that all believers will be raptured, at the same time.  People like you and I will just paste a grin on our faces faster than those who do not recognize what is happening, and look "UP."  We, of diverse opinion, still get to go home together.

In Messiah, His Shalom, and flying lesson.  Arley

PS: Flying to Jesus requires absolutely no arm flapping, only the propulsion of Love, HIS. (any direction but 'down')

There are a couple great websites on this issue; Voice of Evangelism www.voe.org/ Perry Stone Ministries, and ;Hal Lindsay; He wrote ; The late great planet earth about 45 years ago; hallindsay.org.They are both on Daystar TV, they are good, but I don't recomend the others!,as they are kindof out there in space! Joseph Prince; the foreign asian guy is really good too if you can understand him?

But another very biblical contemporary, and close brother/friend of Hal's, who has passed now, Dr. Walter Martin, was a mid-Tribber.

There are good/biblical/scriptural arguements on all sides. Which is why I said "I lean toward", meaning I am not dogmatic about it.